Bolang Jin Wave Power

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Bolang Jin Wave Power

Postby D_Glenn on Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:26 am

In the Chinese Martial Arts there 2 ways of fighting: Category A) The way all Martial Arts and Basic Pugilism Skills of the world function - using quick and fast hand methods, combined with quick kicks and footwork. It consists of only 'Hand Methods' (Shou Fa) and 'Leg Methods' (Tui Fa) that can be done in quick concession. The power is relative to one's own body mass.

Then there is Category B) Building upon and changing those 'Hand and Foot Methods' by learning and adding in very distinct 'Torso Methods' (Shen Fa) to gain more power. At first it adds a raw, overwhelming 2nd force to the initial 1st force strike of the hand or foot, causing the opponent's body/skeleton to be moved and ideally damaged. (How the opponent was affected is fairly visible to the outside observer). Later on, via continued practice, the 'Torso Methods' are further refined and can then also be used to add-in a 3rd Penetrating force to injure the insides/ flesh of the opponent while leaving the body/skeleton relatively unmoved or still. (This is where the affect on the opponent is not visible to the outside observer).

While learning and harnessing the skills of Category (B), one should continue to only use the skills of (A) for fighting. Even after (B) is fully refined and usable in a fight, in the midst of that fight, one can still be using and changing back & forth between (A) and (B).

Category (B) Just adds another set of tools to learn how to use. A whole new arsenal of weapons to employ.

(On this forum all I've ever written about is the skills involved and principles that fall under Category (B) - the 'Torso Method'-based set of skills. They're the more difficult ones to achieve, and hence rarer, but wholly usable in a fight as long as you keep some relative line of distinction, in your own mind, between the two categories.
This also makes for 2 completely different types of discussions happening on the forum, sometimes in the same thread, and a lot of confusion arises when people who only know and practice (A) don't really understand what's being written when (B) is being discussed.
)

One of these 'Torso Methods', and the first one to be taught in most of the Chinese Martial Styles is called 波浪勁 Bo Lang Jin (Crashing/ Breaking Wave Power) or 浪头劲 Langtou Jin (Wave Power).

This has been casually but mistakenly referred to as a "Spinal Wave".

It's really important to know that the vertebrae of the spinal column don't actually move in a wave-like manner.

Trying to move the spinal column in a wave-like motion to generate this power and learn the 'Torso Methods' will only cause great amounts of frustration.

It's better to just think about 'Concaving' the Chest' (虚胸 Xu Xiong/涵胸 Han Xiong) and 'Concaving the Abdomen' (凹肚 Ao Du /收腹 Shou Fu) / 'Rounding-Out the Lumbar' by tucking the sacrum/tailbone underneath, in a single, coordinated and harmonized movement, where then the whole back is rounded forward, and power is issued.

The metaphor to it being like a wave is because the power produced from the spine is like a seismic wave (震波 'Zhenbo') traveling through the flesh of the torso then moving out into and through the flesh of the arms and legs.

In the body there are six natural curves/ bends that can generate power - the 2 elbows, 2 knees, and 2 sections of the spine which in Chinese are called the 'Liu Gong' (Six Archer's Bows).

The Bows of the chest (thoracic) and abdomen (lumbar) are 2 separate, individual Bows until one learns to move them in unison with a single thought. "6 Bows of the body becoming 5."

波浪勁 Bo Lang Jin (Crashing/ Breaking Wave Power) aka 浪头劲 Langtou Jin (Wave Power) is the way Chinese Martial Arts 'Issue' (發 Fa) 'Power' (力 Li or 劲 Jin) using the Bow of the spine: 力由脊發 {Power comes from the spine Issuing.}

It's also more apt to look at the metaphors where the movement of the spinal column is likened to an Archer's 'Bow' in a more literal and visual manner.
Almost like if someone was standing behind you, pulling on a bowstring that's attached to the base of your neck and tailbone, then releasing the string and your spine, functioning like a leaf-spring, then 'Issues Power' (發劲 Fa Jin).


As you pull the shoulders back and 'Open' the chest (thoracic part of the spine); and pull back the sacrum from a tucked position (the lumbar curving inward); then you're 'Storing-Up Power' (蓄劲 Xu Jin): 蓄劲如开弓 {Store-up power like if one is drawing back the string of a bow.}

Then in a quick movement the sacrum tucks underneath, the shoulders move forward, the lumbar and thoracic are rounded forward, and 'Issues Power' (發劲 Fa Jin): 發劲如放箭 {Issuing power is like releasing the bowstring/ letting loose the arrow.}


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杨式太极拳第二代传人杨班侯之六合劲是:“拧裹、钻翻、螺旋、崩炸、惊弹、抖擞” ~ {Second generation disciple of Yang style Taijiquan: Yang Banhou wrote: [Describing this subject of harmonizing the physical movements of 'Storing Up' (蓄 'Xu') and 'Issuing' (發 'Fa')] 'Pinching and Binding'; [Like grabbing and beginning to pull the string of a bow] 'Drilling and Overturning'; [Still pulling back and then holding the string and arrow notched] then 'Spiraling and Returning'. [Is what's happening during and after the bow is releasing it's energy. This is all happening in a split-second and is like...] 'Beng Zha' the sudden explosion when the string/tension is released; 'Jing Tan' the frightening shock of the spring releasing; and 'Dou Sou' the shaking and vibrating of the spring and string afterward.}

----

In Pigua Quan: 躯干开合如弓,胝胸背吞似弦,发出之力尤如离弦之无影快箭,与上下肢及躯干的起伏拧转形成调全身之力,以最快带度集中于一点的合力。 ~ {The torso opens and closes like an archer's bow. The movement of the chest and back are like the bowstring. Issuing out Power is like the arrow leaving the string. So when the four limbs moving in coordination with this up, down, twisting, and turning movements of the torso give one a whole body power which allows one to quickly produce a lot of power but focused into a single point.}



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Last edited by D_Glenn on Sat Feb 02, 2013 3:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Bolang Jin Wave Power

Postby Mr_Wood on Sat Feb 02, 2013 5:19 pm

Great explanation, thanks
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Re: Bolang Jin Wave Power

Postby Ralteria on Sat Feb 02, 2013 8:07 pm

Interesting D_ ,

Assuming your writing from an experiential stand point, wouldn't you have to be able to issue from the waist first before being able to learn wave power?

I'm judging this based on how I learned things/experienced them and I'm not sure how you could even generate wave power without being able to issue from the waist/core to begin with. It just seems like it would be empty, unconnected and with no substance.
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Re: Bolang Jin Wave Power

Postby D_Glenn on Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:00 pm

Ralteria, I learned them both at the same time. That's the way I was taught from the get go.

The waist powers the turning side to side; the spine powers the up and down; the two combine to power front to back and the diagonals.

So the waist and the spine definitely work together.

I've seen people who've only focused on the waist first and they end up developing too much rigidity in the lower back (yaobei) and later they have a difficult time getting that area flexible enough to learn the 'Bolang Jin'.

For the sake of simplicity in this thread I was focusing on just the spine but in those texts I translated you can see that they're also talking about the waist and it's twisting and turning.


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Re: Bolang Jin Wave Power

Postby D_Glenn on Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:04 pm

Mr_Wood wrote:Great explanation, thanks


Thanks. I was hoping it was readable. When dealing with these sorts of topics at some point you just have to give up and hit the 'Submit' button.

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Re: Bolang Jin Wave Power

Postby jonathan.bluestein on Sat Feb 02, 2013 11:28 pm

Thanks for another great explanation. I'd like to add that in Pigua, the difference is that as a matte of fighting strategy, the movements in this mechanism of action are much more overt. They can be shrunk over time, but in application and practice they are commonly large in size compared to what's seen in IMA. I can see a marked difference between my shenfa when performing Pigua, which is heavily influenced by my XYQ, to that of people who've only practiced Pigua. I'm not trying to suggest my performance is better - just that it's different. I also find that there'd be a marked difference between those who've done ZZ or circle-walking training, to those who have not. In the actual issuing of power, I see much more similarity between good Hebei XYQ and good Yin-style bagua, than between these two and Chen Taiji Quan, even though all of these arts use Bolang Jin.
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Re: Bolang Jin Wave Power

Postby jjy5016 on Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:54 am

Thank you for the excellent topic and writing D. This is not an easy method to obtain by any means. Even when one knows the theory of the correct method and trains to use the six bows, opening and closing the spine and correct turning of the waist it is very difficult to get them to all work together in an instant.

"As you pull the shoulders back and 'Open' the chest (thoracic part of the spine); and pull back the sacrum from a tucked position (the lumbar curving inward); then you're 'Storing-Up Power' (蓄劲 Xu Jin): 蓄劲如开弓 {Store-up power like if one is drawing back the string of a bow.}

Then in a quick movement the sacrum tucks underneath, the shoulders move forward, the lumbar and thoracic are rounded forward, and 'Issues Power' (發劲 Fa Jin): 發劲如放箭 {Issuing power is like releasing the bowstring/ letting loose the arrow.}"



One thing I would add is that is that this process may be reversed where the closing action may be the "Storing-Up Power" phase and the opening can the release. A bit harder but just as powerful depending on the technique one is applying it to.

Again, great topic.

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Re: Bolang Jin Wave Power

Postby Bao on Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:02 am

jjy5016 wrote:. Even when one knows the theory of the correct method and trains to use the six bows, opening and closing the spine and correct turning of the waist it is very difficult to get them to all work together in an instant.


Yes, here is the rub. The components must all work together in an instant. Creating an exploding force when everything works together at the same time is much harder than creating a whip like power. The quality where all force vectors combine in one single movement is harder than stringing them up one after one. It's much more powerful and the quality of movement. Fajing is an instantaneous realease of stored up movement. There should be no time delay between the different body parts.

It's good to work with a more compact frame where you can feel all the components working at the same time. If you only work with more whip-like movement, you might not get to the point where you can connect all of the parts instantaneous in one single movement, or release all of the movement in a fraction of a second.
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Re: Bolang Jin Wave Power

Postby somatai on Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:37 am

Great post Devlin. The distinction from A to B is very important. It is something I am currently playing with, moving back from b to a and it is very interesting indeed
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Re: Bolang Jin Wave Power

Postby jjy5016 on Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:25 am

Bao wrote:
jjy5016 wrote:. Even when one knows the theory of the correct method and trains to use the six bows, opening and closing the spine and correct turning of the waist it is very difficult to get them to all work together in an instant.


Yes, here is the rub. The components must all work together in an instant. Creating an exploding force when everything works together at the same time is much harder than creating a whip like power. The quality where all force vectors combine in one single movement is harder than stringing them up one after one. It's much more powerful and the quality of movement. Fajing is an instantaneous realease of stored up movement. There should be no time delay between the different body parts.

It's good to work with a more compact frame where you can feel all the components working at the same time. If you only work with more whip-like movement, you might not get to the point where you can connect all of the parts instantaneous in one single movement, or release all of the movement in a fraction of a second.


Great points Bao. In yiquan one works with the compact frame during zhuang practice and then the larger movements during shi li and stepping / walking practice. The whip power and connected whole body power develops first while the explosive / instantaneous release takes quite a while to get. Yi jin ching also develops the body for this type of discharge but does not show the method in the detail that yiquan's standing practice does.

In my experience a lot of misinformation on how to get to the point where the body releases the stored up force has been transmitted either through bad translations of written material or instructors who just don't give it away. One instructor told me that each joint in the body is like an individual dan tien. Still one has to feel it first, then he may develop it through hours of refinement.
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Re: Bolang Jin Wave Power

Postby D_Glenn on Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:04 am

jjy5016 wrote:Thank you for the excellent topic and writing D. This is not an easy method to obtain by any means. Even when one knows the theory of the correct method and trains to use the six bows, opening and closing the spine and correct turning of the waist it is very difficult to get them to all work together in an instant.

One thing I would add is that is that this process may be reversed where the closing action may be the "Storing-Up Power" phase and the opening can the release. A bit harder but just as powerful depending on the technique one is applying it to.


I've written about that before: "...learn the opposite movement or where the spinal wave starts with a quick 'untucking' of the tailbone which is called 翻浪勁 'Fan lang Jin' (overturning wave power) and is the power that drives the more unnatural movements you described. This method though should be learned well after the regular 'fa'/spinal wave, it also requires some significant internal development and even then is only practiced in drills on every third strike."
From ~ http://rumsoakedfist.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7037#p118342

And:

In the Chinese Martial Arts the body consists of Six Bows (六弓 Liu Gong) - The 2 arms, 2 legs, and, because of the larger amount of muscles and articulations, the greater bows (大弓 Da Gong) of the Chest and Lower back.

Here's texts from 武禹襄 Wu Yuxiang (1812–1880) - Who was a student of 楊露禪 Yáng Lùchán and 陳清平 Chen Qingping (1795 - 1868) - a 7th generation teacher of Chen Family Taijiquan:

五弓合一訣
{The Secrets of Harmonizing the Five Bows Into One}

身是弓身勁是箭 粘隨引進走螺旋
{The body is like a bow, the body's strength is the arrow. Sticking, complying, leading, and advancing all move in spirals.}

踢打拿跌不鬥力 離弦莫叫與穴偏
{Kicking, striking, grasping, and throwing must not become a contest of strength. When releasing the bowstring it must be on target.}

內外相合管中線 上下左右中氣先
{Inside and outside mutually working together in order to control the center line. Up, down, left, right, the center moves first.}

一身五弓備蓄發 敷蓋對吞細鑽研
{The whole body is equipped with Five Bows to Store (蓄 xù) and Release (發 fā). Spreading, Covering, Meeting, and Taking must be meticulously studied.}

***

The most important part in the learning to Coordinate the Five Bows [of the body] Into One (五弓合一 Wu Gong He Yi) is the training required to unite/ harmonize the 2 bows of the torso into a single bow that can Store (蓄 xù) and Release (發 fā) as one movement.

This movement of the spine then has 2 functions which can be used in application:

1) to attack outward, on an exhale of the breath, using what is called 波浪勁 Bo Lang Jin (Crashing/ Breaking Wave Power).

or the opposite movement

2) to attack or defend, done on an inhale, (to make the opponent 'Stick' 粘 Zhan), using what is called 翻浪勁 Fan Lang Jin (Reversing/ Overturning Wave Power).


***

Over the years I've already revealed way too much information about 'Fanlang Jin' and really only intended to mention it because some styles start with it, most styles end up using both, and more importantly so people could maybe discern one from the other and then not try to mix the 2 together.

The warnings that are given about using 'Fanlang Jin' should, from experience, be taken extremely seriously, as one is actually forcibly 'Storing-Up'/ 'Drawing Back-In' (蓄 xù).

I can't take back what I've previously written but moving forward I'd like to just focus on 'Bolang Jin'.


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Re: Bolang Jin Wave Power

Postby D_Glenn on Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:44 am

somatai wrote:The distinction from A to B is very important. It is something I am currently playing with, moving back from b to a and it is very interesting indeed


Some more info on that aspect from a post I'd written last year:

The way that everyone naturally punches/ strikes and executes a throw is called 衝擊力 Chōng​jī​ Lì (Impact or Thrusting Force) or 撞擊力 Zhuàng​jī Li (Hitting; Colliding Force). It's like hitting the head of a nail with a hammer.

Young children, amateur and professional Boxers, MMA combatants, Olympic Wrestlers, etc. are all using [Category A] 撞擊力 Zhuàng​jī Li (Colliding Force) when they fight. Which can used in all manner of varieties: relaxed or solid, like a women's slap across the face, or like the young Mike Tyson's whole body knockout punches.

Practitioners of Xingyiquan, Bajiquan, Baguazhang, etc. also use the 撞擊力 Zhuàng​jī Li (Colliding Force) in all of their movements. In a lot of cases this is the only force that is used. Which is fine because in reaction to an attack, it's instinctual and is the most appropriate way to defend oneself.

The Chinese styles though have taken the manner in which the whole body, (or spinal column in conjunction with the arms), moves when thrusting a large, heavy spear forward. This is called [Category B] 波浪勁 Bo Lang Jin (Crashing Wave Power a.k.a. the Spinal Wave). And they've incorporated this movement into the empty-hand side of the arts. It's a completely different body-mechanic from the way one naturally fights using the 撞擊力 Zhuàng​jī Li (Colliding Force).

Once you learn it, either from training it in empty-hand movements or by developing it from training with a large spear, you can then choose whether to 發 'Fa' (Release; Issue) the 波浪勁 Bo Lang Jin (Power contained in the Spinal Column, or rather the muscles of the whole torso that move the ribs and spine) and add that extra power, or second force into your initial 撞擊力 Zhuàng​jī Li (Colliding Force).

In practice one tries to keep their body in a constant state of being able to 發 'Fa' (Release; Issue) at any moment, because one is constantly learning and refining the movements and in order to get the most benefit out of the time spent practicing we need to follow certain rules: Movement starts at the root not the tips (The root of the hand is the shoulder, the root of the shoulder is the waist and tailbone.); Coordinate the arrival of the hand with the landing of the foot; etc.

In actual fighting there are no rules. Responding to and having a quick reaction to thwart the opponent's attacks is crucial. Your body has to move in it's more natural state of using 撞擊力 Zhuàng​jī Li (Colliding Force). If you've spent enough time training and refining your 波浪勁 Bo Lang Jin and it's smooth release (發 'Fa') from root of the spine (tailbone) out to the tip of your hand. Then in a blink of an eye, or with just a thought, and the opportunity arises - you've gained the initiative - then you can 發 'Fa' (Issue Power) from any position and add it to your 撞擊力 Zhuàng​jī Li (Colliding Force) or not release it all but begin to move in a different manner - moving from the roots, not the tips. In the same blink of an eye you could switch back to moving from the tips, with root chasing the tip. Whatever the situation demands.



Really though after one learns to use 'Bolang Jin' in every strike and throw it changes everything as one is then actually just 'Containing/ Holding-Back the Issuing' (渾圓 Hunyuan see ~ http://www.rumsoakedfist.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=12497&start=91) when they're striking and throwing normally.

Going back to a type of 撞擊力 Zhuàng​jī Li (Colliding Force) or truly Normal Style of fighting happens when you don't need 'Hand and Foot Harmony' and the situation requires one to either take a lot of quick steps or have faster hands moving without taking steps; which happens quite a bit.


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Re: Bolang Jin Wave Power

Postby jjy5016 on Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:51 am

I was never given all of these different names of jins that you are posting D. I learned bo lang jin first and then fan lang jin a few years later so I appreciate your logic on learning the latter method later. Why do you feel that you've revealed too much about fa lang jin? Do you think others will hurt themselves trying it unsupervised?
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Re: Bolang Jin Wave Power

Postby D_Glenn on Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:13 am

jjy5016 wrote:I was never given all of these different names of jins that you are posting D. I learned bo lang jin first and then fan lang jin a few years later so I appreciate your logic on learning the latter method later. Why do you feel that you've revealed too much about fa lang jin? Do you think others will hurt themselves trying it unsupervised?


Yes.
I kind of touched on that here: http://rumsoakedfist.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=12795#p220786

Also from our view point (Baguazhang) - You first have to learn something forwards before you learn it going backwards. It'd be kind of like learning to drive a car while only driving it in reverse.

My own metaphor is that learning 'Bolang Jin' is like learning how to 'Ollie' on a skateboard in your normal stance. Then learning 'Fanlang Jin' is like learning to 'Ollie' switch-stance where you already know what's required and you just have to reverse it. It still takes some time but it comes easier.


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Re: Bolang Jin Wave Power

Postby jjy5016 on Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:43 am

"Gathering bits and pieces of information over the years and I think the best description of the difference and how Xingyi came to be is because Xin Yi first uses the torso method called 'Fan Lang Jin' (Reversing Wave Power) to put power into it's strikes. This also reverses flow down the 'Du' meridian and brings power back to the Dantian with force, which if you don't have a well developed Dantian it will cause some internal problems, hence the requirement of 3 years of standing practice before you start any training. The creation of Xingyiquan came from the desire and need to have an art that one can practice immediately so they took only the techniques from Xin Yi that use the torso methods of 'Bo Lang Jin' (Crushing Wave Power) where the power comes from the Dantian and follows the normal flow up the 'Du' meridian to power the strikes, this way the practice of learning to power strikes and developing the Dantian through standing practices could be done simultaneously and take the new student to a high level of skill in a shorter amount of time."

Sorry D. but I don't speak skateboard. But I do agree with what you wrote above. Coincides with what I was taught. We also practice our basic standing for three years to develop a foundation that can take the abuse that comes with practicing the fan lang jin.

Didn't intend to derail the Wave Power subject. Sorry.
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