Imaginary Tool Box

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Imaginary Tool Box

Postby wiesiek on Thu May 22, 2014 3:21 am

`cause we have lot of ZZ related threads, I think that ITB thread may be good place to share our experience with pictures in the mind.
I sold one of mine already /railway station and train compartments for disturbing thoughts/.

This is second one which I invented during ZZ/ I mean- didn`t read about, nor somebody told me/ .
Internal stretching:
- connect fingers and toes diagonally
- stretch them in pairs /left thumb- right big toe/ , using breath and mind
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Re: Imaginary Tool Box

Postby shawnsegler on Mon May 26, 2014 12:54 pm

The problem with these kind of things is that they are so individual based on a bunch of nebulous factors, like where the person is in their proprioceptive sensitivity, what they are trying to do, their personal experience and what speaks to them.

This is where we all get into trouble but it's also one of the richest areas of practice. Visualizations of this sort are very powerful and in many cases have a lot of well thought out experience behind them and the ability to achieve vast personal change for the practitioner. It's like a science unto itself. Sort of like NLP, sort of like psychology and requiring (depending on what you're doing) a good understanding of physiology, Chinese medicine and an understanding of how the brain works just to avoid negative repercussions.

Certainly worth talking about, but fraught with danger and the possibility of misunderstanding.

My 2c.

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Re: Imaginary Tool Box

Postby TrainingDummy on Mon May 26, 2014 1:20 pm

But that's where partner testing HAS to come in.

If you visualisation/ musculoskeletal alignment/ facial stretching technique doesn't lead to a quantifiable increase in power to project or root, it's not working properly.
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Re: Imaginary Tool Box

Postby shawnsegler on Mon May 26, 2014 2:20 pm

And that makes my point. 1 post and we're already in apples v oranges territory.
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Re: Imaginary Tool Box

Postby wiesiek on Tue May 27, 2014 2:43 pm

hmm,
my observation is that we have natural quality to >filter out< what doesn`t work good.
You need solid background, but it is distillery, is it not?
T.D. - testing - MA is the place for it , we are here because we are testing, or it just me?

We are all starting from the simplest Dantian breathing and counting.
Some system just stay here.
Like practitioners - they are in different places of the same way.
We are in constant search for one key for all the doors. However it is wise to have more than one and already checked :)
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Re: Imaginary Tool Box

Postby TrainingDummy on Wed May 28, 2014 2:04 pm

I think it depends on what you trying to achieve.

Some people want their martial ability/ cultivation/ healing/ health/ faith practices all within the one exercise. I'm of the opinion that you should approach each goal separately and build some sort of appropriate feedback mechanism for each practice. Martial and musculosketetal health practices have some crossover because they can both use a partner to gently offer feedback on the force vectors being generated and the appropriate muscular groups being recruited.

I also strongly believe that the more psychologically focused practises also require feedback, via a school\ teacher, some sort of therapy practice, biofeedback etc. It's just too easy to fool yourself with progress in the psychological realm. Your philosophical background is going to strongly influence how you approach things. For instance wiesiek's technique on compartmentalizing disturbing thoughts would never cut it for me, since my tantra background views uncomfortable feelings as the richest ones to explore.
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Re: Imaginary Tool Box

Postby wiesiek on Mon Jun 02, 2014 1:08 pm

disturbing thought can generated uncomfortable state,
but
disturbing doesn`t equals discomfort ,
so
while you may explore feelings
distortion isn`t welcome.

sending out this train with distortions - it is idea one of my zen teacher . It stay with me thru the millennia, as the most effective for the task.
Stretching is my own.
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Re: Imaginary Tool Box

Postby TrainingDummy on Fri Jun 06, 2014 4:13 pm

Like I said, your philosophy is going to greatly influence what techniques you use.

If I look at the train technique from a Kriya Yoga perspective, it literally compartmentalises your consciousness, which is against the general trend of unification within a meditation process.

I sit with the Buddhist psychology and regression crowd of various systems. Work out your "normal" neurosis through some sort of partnered therapy process and keep your meditation practice for developing stillness and awareness.

But you've got something that works for you, so rock on!
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Re: Imaginary Tool Box

Postby wiesiek on Sun Jun 08, 2014 2:03 am

Dear T. Dummy,
I used simple, one meaning title :"Toolbox" for the reason,
guess for what Toolbox is?
I really don`t care about Kiria Yoga or yours perspective for that matter,
I don`t even care about Guru-Shmuru from Komodo practise, or his ability here!
If YOU don~`t putting THE tools here, or instructions/comments - how to using them - please: simply shut up, and go away.
THIS IS DISTILLERY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Don`t leave trash , only the tools, trash take with you when you`re leaving,please.
Thank YOU
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Re: Imaginary Tool Box

Postby TrainingDummy on Sun Jun 08, 2014 4:11 pm

I don't follow the teachings of Guru Komodo, though he sounds pretty cool. I don't actually follow Kriya either, but I like to back up my statements from a classical perspective wherever possible.

The fact is, past beginner levels, inner work just goes around in circles without proper feedback mechanisms and tailored instructions in place. It's exactly the same argument regarding internal martial arts that gets repeated over on the main board, the real stuff has to be felt. Once you've experienced the depth of a full training, everything else just looks hollow and false, and it's easier to never discuss it than to get in arguments with total strangers over the Internet about it.

Again, you not have well defined your goals beyond "Imaginary Toolbox". Maybe if you did, a discussion that's more meaningful for you might ensue.

But you wanted techniques, here's a beginners level textbook on inner alchemy, influenced by Indian tantra and Taoism and written by one of my teachers. Rock on, but I don't think it's what you're looking for.
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Re: Imaginary Tool Box

Postby wiesiek on Tue Jun 10, 2014 1:08 pm

geee,
i know, i`m not the native, english speakin` person,
but
toolbox is quite easy understandable term, even for pigeon language only, is not?

please HELP, English teacher needed!

ps
..."The fact is, past beginner levels, inner work just goes around in circles..."
men,
you should know , that : if you don`t know what to do, start from the beginning.
but
this is obviously to advanced
so
go follow teachers of yours,
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Re: Imaginary Tool Box

Postby TrainingDummy on Wed Jun 11, 2014 3:55 am

Well... clearly I can't help you. So good luck with whatever it is you're trying to achieve.

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Re: Imaginary Tool Box

Postby wiesiek on Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:41 am

uff,
thank you, now you`re helpful :)
I try to achieve nothing, I`m just traveller on the Way,
and
Toolbox only help are the tools, not the talks, nor the philosophy either,
shitty pictures count big NO here, `cause I`m interested in Art not the bs.
so
I will really appreciated if you remove this below "0" level picture, posted above.
Thank You in advance.
All the best on Your way.
W.
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Re: Imaginary Tool Box

Postby wiesiek on Fri Jun 13, 2014 10:00 pm

ps
from the another hand, if you /T.D./ do not trolling this thread and REALLY like to help:
put here K.Y. tool which you are using in this moment of the practise
THEN
it may be interesting to read about this perspective...if you please.
Last edited by wiesiek on Fri Jun 13, 2014 10:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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