My Shifu's Yang Taiji

[Michael]

Is it possible he just doesn't have a typical or traditional or actual Yang Taiji teacher, but the Beijing 24 is so accessible that one can do it without having to name lineage? Just some random speculation. He looks strong for sure, but no need to search high and low in China for that good quality level, of course that's just one thing being shown in a potentially very large panoply of material, so...just sayin'. Thanks for sharing in any case. I'd also love to see more video of him, as I would expect it to be worth viewing.

[MaartenSFS]

Is it possible he just doesn't have a typical or traditional or actual Yang Taiji teacher, but the Beijing 24 is so accessible that one can do it without having to name lineage? Just some random speculation. He looks strong for sure, but no need to search high and low in China for that good quality level, of course that's just one thing being shown in a potentially very large panoply of material, so...just sayin'. Thanks for sharing in any case. I'd also love to see more video of him, as I would expect it to be worth viewing.

No, it's not. He learnt from at least five or six Taiji masters. You can't just come up with this shit on your own, certainly not be able to use it so well in fighting. You should see his 20 posture Chen form. Lot's of Sun Shi Taiji, Xinyiliuhe and Bagua influence in there. That form was created by one of his Gongfu brothers around 30 years ago. He was (is?) the head of some national martial arts association in Shanghai for many years. According to Shifu, almost every master with any skill studied several arts before possibly "majoring" in one, usually because the master of that art kicked their arse to a pulp.

In both cases he took a truncated form that captured the essence of the arts and slowly modified them into what he now practises. He stopped practising all of the long forms many, many years ago. "Once you know how to swim, you don't need to swim every day!" he says. He doesn't do the Bagua circle walking either.

[yeniseri]

I once told a friend who was a high school wrestler, a black belt in judo and an MMA novice that I would teach him the Beijing 16 form, some taijizhuang and he would be able to make a living as a taijiquan instructor and he is doing an excellent job of it. Even better than myself! In my limited way, I told him that since he possessed a basic conditioning skill, some martial ability, he would be able to grasp basic concepts to see a connection and make the form his own. Now his form is far more "live' with skill as opposed to gymnastic performance. I know quite a few who believe in orthodoxy of lineage forms that look well or have secret numerical hexes (as in posture numbers or an 11 form anything can never provide kick ass head busting utility!) but lack function and utuility (other than gymnastic performance)....

Just a pot bellied big gutted bald dingbat enjoying cocoa kola in the shade! marvelous, ja ja!

[Michael]

I only have a couple of years of experience with TJQ, started with the Beijing 24 and then learned the first third of the Yang 108, and the Yang had so much greater benefit to me in every way, that from my POV the Beijing 24 appeared quite inferior. Just my experience.

[yeniseri]

What was your training curriculum for the Beijing 24 form?

[Michael]

Didn't have as such. I just learned the postures at the beginner level. It was an introductory class for the school. One of the other students bought a tape of a Chinese man doing the BJ-24 and we watched it all together and our teacher liked it, so I used it on my own at home to learn the postures.

[MaartenSFS]

I think that it all depends on what your teacher teaches with the 24. My Shifu thinks of things in terms of "Jins" and if two moves have the same "Jin" that they are just a variation of one another. That's why he believes that the 24 captured the essence of the style. He still decided to add Sun, Wu, Xinyi and Bagua, amongst other things to even it out, though.

[wayne hansen]

Lu style I have not heard of that before

[Michael]

Lu style I have not heard of that before

The Late Master Lu Hung Bin 盧鴻賓 developed this style of Tai Ji Quan as part of his family system that includes the normal components as well as Bagua Zhang and Xing Yi Quan.

Here's a list of Master Lu's 72 form Tai Ji Quan.

As I mentioned above, I did not have an opportunity to learn this system, except for the qigong, which is the first two parts of the energetic cultivation practices, the other two being the meditation and the neigong, and so I never practiced the Lu Style TJQ or other parts.

Written in Stone, and article by John Painter about Lu Hong Bin
downloadable PDF
Web page

TAI CHI CHUAN
as taught by
Master Lu Hung Bin

1. Opening from nothingness.
2. Holding the Tai Chi Ball.
3. Left and right, Yin and Yang, or positive and negative moves.
4. Turn, block, push forward and grasp the sparrow's tail.
5. Ward off, dissolve and push forward.
6. Turn arond, cross the hands, and single whip.
7. Block, raise hand and step forward.
8. Spread the wings to the left and right.
9. White stork spreads it's wings.
10. Brush knee and push.
11. Play the Chinese guitar on the left side.
12. Brush knee and push.
13. Play the Chinese guitar on the right side.
14. Embrace the knee and push.
15. Step forward, parry and punch.
16. Carry tiger to the mountain.
17. Spread the arms to the left and right.
18. Punch below the elbow and kick with the toes.
19. Monkey steps backwards three times.
20. Oblique moves to the left and right.
21. Fend off through the back and block with the fists.
22. Brush away to the side and punch.
23. Embrace the knee and punch with hands together.
24. Lay down the foot, block and punch.
25. Cloud hands three times.
26. Oblique single whip.
27. Mount high on the horse from the right side.
28. Spread the leg to the right.
29. Mount high on the horse from the left side.
30. Spread the leg to the left.
31. Turn the body around and kick with the heel.
32. Embrace the knee and punch down towards the groin.
33. Turn around and dissolve a punch.
34. Push and spread the legs apart to the right and left.
35. Retreat and grasp the moon from the bottom of the sea.
36. Lift the leg and and kick with the heel.
37. Attack the tiger on the left side.
38. Throw the arms in front of the body and kick with the toes.
39. Attack the tiger on the right side.
40. Block forward and strike with both fists to the ears.
41. Wild horse parting the mane three times.
42. Fair lady throws the shuttle at the four corners.
43. Cloud hands three times and oblique single whip.
44. Snake stoops down.
45. Golden chicken stands on one leg.
46. Brush knee and point forward.
47. Pick the needle from the bottom of the sea.
48. Yield with the back.
49. Turn around while the snake sticks out it's tongue.
50. Step forward, brush knee, punch, step through and push.
51. Cloud hands three times.
52. Mount the horse and penetrate with the hand.
53. Cover the elbows three times.
54. Spread the arms and do the lotus foot kick.
55. Bend the bow and shoot the tiger.
56. Step forward, block and strike.
57. Step forward with the seven star form.
58. Step back and ride the tiger.
59. Step forward and pierce through the sky like a dragon.
60. Cross the seven stars strike and kick.
61. Swallow flying obliquely.
62. Little child paying respect to Buddha.
63. Twist the foot and ride the tiger.
64. Turn the foot and do the double lotus foot kick on the right side.
65. Swing around and do the double lotus foot kick on the left side.
66. Bend the bow and shoot the bird.
67. Turn back, brush knee right and left.
68. Dodge, move, block and punch.
69. Block forward, step forward and cross the hands.
70. Level the feet and bend down to grasp the moon.
71. Unite all the energy into one.
72. Return to Tai Chi.

[Michael]

I think that it all depends on what your teacher teaches with the 24. My Shifu thinks of things in terms of "Jins" and if two moves have the same "Jin" that they are just a variation of one another. That's why he believes that the 24 captured the essence of the style. He still decided to add Sun, Wu, Xinyi and Bagua, amongst other things to even it out, though.

Maarten, I have to confess of course that I simply don't have remotely enough experience to recognize jins or other styles being expressed/integrated into the BJ 24. Perhaps my eye can pick up aspects of strength, focus and circularity typical of CIMA as I know it (again, based on very limited experience), and it's the last one, circularity, that I think is extremely difficult to express with the BJ 24 sequence, so I'm no fan of it, but that's just me. And I haven't done any TJQ for 7 years, so...

[MaartenSFS]

No worries, I wasn't in any way offended. I suppose it's a legitimate question and I should be ready and willing to answer it (or go ask Shifu). What my Shifu is teaching sounds very similar to Lu Taijiquan (is there also Lu Baguazhang, Xingyi?). I think that when masters study different arts and decide to mix them, this is the inevitable result. Purists will keep them separate and it will take years to learn all of that material. My Shifu understands the modern world and his students' needs. He knows about boxing, BJJ and MMA. He was a combat instructor for the army. He cares about efficiency and realises that the arts must adapt or die. I really appreciate this.

[Michael]

He never described them that way to me as a beginner.

[Michael]

The thing that I loved about the Lu Style taoist qigong I learned was that every move was focused on an acupoint.

[yeniseri]

That is interesting. I was a workshop/seminar student of Lu Hungpin when he came to the Chicago many years ago and he was 'old' but the skill was obvious in application. His main style was xingyi and he learned baquazhang later. His taiijiquan, in orientation and design, is similar to Sun taijiquan (with each showing their own taiji interpratations. I only learned single palm change and a few xingyi insights but I am not a xingyi practitioner. When he was in Chicago, Lu met up with some of his "close to age" acquaintances like Master Hou Chi Kwang and some Yang practitioners who studied (allegedly) with Yang Chengfu and Yang Shouhou.

I have no knowledge and am extremely ignorant of this Lu Taoist qigong as this was never expressed in translation or obvious instruction on the matter but it was great to know about his life and the people he met along the way as he met most, if not all during his youth associated with xingyi and baquazhang.

[Michael]

The knowledge is very applicable for fighting or healing when you get it from someone who knows it well.