這就是中國, This is China says Xu Xiaodong

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: 這就是中國, This is China says Xu Xiaodong

Postby wayne hansen on Fri May 19, 2017 2:34 pm

If you want to defend against Frazier you can do it like any boxer would
But you would have to be one of the half a dozen best boxers in the world
The western boxing hook is a straight punch delivered from an oblique angle so more like a tai chi straight punch
Just because good tai chi people weren't competing in the states against all comers doesn't mean they weren't doing that in HK ,Taiwan and south east Asia
When I competed very few people were recording anything
It was all super 8 film
Even if I had a video camera I would not have interrupted the training to film
It is a different world now days,very few of us ever thought of being full time teachers
It was just what we did and the only motivation was to learn
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Re: 這就是中國, This is China says Xu Xiaodong

Postby Steve James on Fri May 19, 2017 3:45 pm

Sure, the way a boxer does it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iE8qA_Gcn8

What's the tcc way?
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Re: 這就是中國, This is China says Xu Xiaodong

Postby wayne hansen on Fri May 19, 2017 4:55 pm

Exactly the same in tai chi except the return is a straight punch not a roundhouse
Movements 1&2 in side a of the San shou
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Re: 這就是中國, This is China says Xu Xiaodong

Postby Steve James on Fri May 19, 2017 5:41 pm

Exactly the same in tai chi


You mean this san shou? at around 4:15?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ns03tELcdxg
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Re: 這就是中國, This is China says Xu Xiaodong

Postby wayne hansen on Fri May 19, 2017 5:55 pm

I guess it is the same form there is only one San shou
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Re: 這就是中國, This is China says Xu Xiaodong

Postby Steve James on Fri May 19, 2017 6:20 pm

Just doesn't look like they do it exactly the way boxers do. And I ain't saying there's anything wrong with that. In the past, some would describe it as "external" and "low level." Ya know, a lot of people in the past who took up tcc already had experience with other martial arts, some quite extensively. Wu Chien Chuan was a shuai jiao guy, iinm, before he took up tcc. John Wang's teacher developed his own form of tcc, Chang tcc. William CC Chen did some boxing before taking up CMC's style (again, iinm). Then, of course, there's SLT.

I'm not saying that every karate or wc guy can make up his or own tai chi style, in one sense. But, I agree with what BruceP (?) said about helping students find "their" tcc. Everybody has to make up his or her own style because, ultimately, they will be expressing themselves. But, what I was talking about was that people with ma experience will inevitably incorporate that experience, even if it's more in terms of mentality than form.
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Re: 這就是中國, This is China says Xu Xiaodong

Postby wayne hansen on Fri May 19, 2017 7:09 pm

Sure lots of tai chi guys did other arts before they took up tai chi but others didn't.
The fact is when they came to tai chi many abandoned their other arts
Our grandmaster chock Seng kam challenged yap Sui ting on 4 occasions
Chock 6 ft 4. Yap 5 ft 4
Yap knocked him out 4 times on each occasion chock did not see what did it
Both chock and his younger brother lu tong Bao fought everyone from Shaolin,Silat and Muay Thai
They also trained lots of full contact fighters
Chock put together his own fighting set combining hsing I,Shaolin and ba kua.
But it is done in a tai chi manner
I think you are confusing Wu with his father a wrestler
CDS tai chi set is no different to any yang set I have seen
SLT trained hsing I and ba kua which I don't see any difference to tai chi
I didn't watch the clip you put up as I have seen it before
The way the moves are done in the dual set is not the way they are applied when practiced as solo sets
Each move has many variables in the solo set
Most practice it as a pushing dance accomodating the shortcomings of their partner to get to a harmonious finish
Any deviation of your partner should be exploited as in a boxing bout and capitalised upon
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Re: 這就是中國, This is China says Xu Xiaodong

Postby wayne hansen on Sun May 21, 2017 12:33 pm

Steve James wrote:
Exactly the same in tai chi


You mean this san shou? at around 4:15?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ns03tELcdxg


If you look at the left hand in move one of this version you will see the move I meant

https://youtu.be/PPsG6WhlZRY
Last edited by wayne hansen on Tue May 23, 2017 1:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 這就是中國, This is China says Xu Xiaodong

Postby everything on Tue May 23, 2017 8:31 am

The whole episode is really not about MA whatsoever is it? I don't buy that it's about traditional or Chinese culture vs. Western culture or methods. Is that what they're saying over in China? It looks like the story got picked up by the Economist today as well.

It seems it's about epistemology. How does Xu know what is true (tested) vs. how do people who are brain-washed know what is true? It seems like this question applies quite a bit to the current political tragicomedy happening in the US.
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Re: 這就是中國, This is China says Xu Xiaodong

Postby Niall Keane on Tue May 23, 2017 1:27 pm

everything wrote:The whole episode is really not about MA whatsoever is it? I don't buy that it's about traditional or Chinese culture vs. Western culture or methods. Is that what they're saying over in China? It looks like the story got picked up by the Economist today as well.

It seems it's about epistemology. How does Xu know what is true (tested) vs. how do people who are brain-washed know what is true? It seems like this question applies quite a bit to the current political tragicomedy happening in the US.


exactly! I'll just add the obvious, the brain-washed don't "know" what is true, they purely believe. A lot of CMA is a cult!
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Re: 這就是中國, This is China says Xu Xiaodong

Postby everything on Tue May 23, 2017 2:16 pm

I would say we've (we pretty much meaning all humans) all been on both sides of this issue - maybe not with MA specifically, but with other things that can be difficult to understand. That's why I say it's really a philosophical topic (only in this case things seem blindingly obvious to us on this particular board). We think we know something but is it that our unconscious hypothesis just hasn't encountered the larger set of data points yet? Probably. Perhaps I thought I was "good" at various sports or subjects --- until I found out what is actually "good". For most people, by definition, there are more levels to go. Many of us clearly think we know a lot. Probably 1-2 minutes sparring with Rickson, Fedor, Miocic, etc. (if one could be so lucky) would clear a lot of things up.

On another aspect,
It's sad how Chinese culture places so much emphasis on face-saving. On the flip side, that's probably why the Chinese understand Trump so well. He's the ultimate face-saver. Always thinking he is great and understands something he does not, then he needs to save face. The cultures who get this seem to be able to manipulate him, which is horrifyingly ironic.
Last edited by everything on Tue May 23, 2017 2:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 這就是中國, This is China says Xu Xiaodong

Postby windwalker on Tue May 23, 2017 2:29 pm

Many of us clearly think we know a lot. Probably 1-2 minutes sparring with Rickson, Fedor, Miocic, etc. (if one could be so lucky) would clear a lot of things up.


And you don't think the same could be said of the top CMA guys that are less public?
that interacting with them as suggested would clear things up? :-\ Or do you as some feel
because they see no examples nor apparently have interacted with any of them that
they don't exist....

Could it not be that some actually have experience in both worlds, might even come from
one of them and choose the path that best suites them...
Last edited by windwalker on Tue May 23, 2017 2:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 這就是中國, This is China says Xu Xiaodong

Postby windwalker on Tue May 23, 2017 2:36 pm

On another aspect,
It's sad how Chinese culture places so much emphasis on face-saving. On the flip side, that's probably why the Chinese understand Trump so well. He's the ultimate face-saver. Always thinking he is great and understands something he does not, then he needs to save face. The cultures who get this seem to be able to manipulate him, which is horrifyingly ironic.


wow, you totally get Chinese culture and by extension also
understand whats going on with the President.

Consider that maybe you do not understand Chinese culture
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Re: 這就是中國, This is China says Xu Xiaodong

Postby everything on Tue May 23, 2017 2:38 pm

I don't really know why you think I don't get Chinese culture or American politics (and you seem to think you do), but ok....
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Re: 這就是中國, This is China says Xu Xiaodong

Postby johnwang on Tue May 23, 2017 9:54 pm

windwalker wrote:top CMA guys that are less public?


Who are those "top CMA guys that are less public" that you have talked about many times here?
Last edited by johnwang on Tue May 23, 2017 10:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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