WW2 "Big Swords Unit" (大刀隊) Motto

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WW2 "Big Swords Unit" (大刀隊) Motto

Postby Pavel Macek on Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:57 am

My Chinese (speaking) friends, please help. I am looking for WW2 "Big Swords Unit" (大刀隊) motto that they (according to Draeger/Smith) wore as a patch on their uniform:

When we fight, we fit use bullets;
When the bullets are gone we use bayonets;
When the bayonets are dull,
we use the rifle barrel;
When it is broken, we use our fists;
When our fists are broken, we bite.

Can anybody verify this and find the Chinese characters? Much appreciated!
Pavel Macek

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Re: WW2 "Big Swords Unit" (大刀隊) Motto

Postby Yeung on Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:18 am

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Re: WW2 "Big Swords Unit" (大刀隊) Motto

Postby Yeung on Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:27 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuWGYpHLoNI

破鋒八刀 刀訣 

迎面大劈破鋒刀,
掉手橫揮使攔腰,
順風勢成掃秋葉,
橫掃千鈞敵難逃,
跨步挑撩似雷奔,
連環提柳下斜削,
左右防護憑快取,
移步換型突刺刀....
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Re: WW2 "Big Swords Unit" (大刀隊) Motto

Postby Yeung on Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:48 am

Pavel Macek wrote:My Chinese (speaking) friends, please help. I am looking for WW2 "Big Swords Unit" (大刀隊) motto that they (according to Draeger/Smith) wore as a patch on their uniform:
When we fight, we fit use bullets;
When the bullets are gone we use bayonets;
When the bayonets are dull,
we use the rifle barrel;
When it is broken, we use our fists;
When our fists are broken, we bite.

Can anybody verify this and find the Chinese characters? Much appreciated!


Sorry can not find your motto, but did you mean 中国军队29军大刀队?
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Re: WW2 "Big Swords Unit" (大刀隊) Motto

Postby wayne hansen on Sat Aug 12, 2017 1:55 pm

What I was told about the big broadsword unit is that they were a special forces unit
The reason they used broadswords is so they could infiltrate Japanese camps at night and kill as many as possible without noise and escape before the alarm was raised
It is said Huang hsein hsein was a member
He developed his own broadsword set which is a melding of the yang and Wu sets I learned
Just one other thing on the broadsword
I learned FMA with some of the best because I wasn't sure how practical my yang style set was
If is the same sequence as the one most do but done quite differently
I think that was due to the fact some of our teachers were WW2 veterans
Thing I found out was that it is as strong as any Phillipineo art even though it doesn't have the same amount of two man stuff
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Re: WW2 "Big Swords Unit" (大刀隊) Motto

Postby Steve James on Sat Aug 12, 2017 2:22 pm

"A man is rich when he has time and freewill. How he chooses to invest both will determine the return on his investment."
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Re: WW2 "Big Swords Unit" (大刀隊) Motto

Postby Steve James on Sat Aug 12, 2017 2:24 pm

"A man is rich when he has time and freewill. How he chooses to invest both will determine the return on his investment."
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Re: WW2 "Big Swords Unit" (大刀隊) Motto

Postby Strange on Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:40 pm

actually "Sabre Unit" was a name given to them by an admiring public using the unit's most prominent weapon.
the official army unit designation is 29军手枪队 or 29th Army Pistol Unit
this is due to material " challenges" at the time
i am not sure that it is correct to say they were active in WW2
and i do not think they officially wore any such patches
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i said slowly and evenly; i did not say weakly
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Re: WW2 "Big Swords Unit" (大刀隊) Motto

Postby Trick on Sat Aug 12, 2017 11:18 pm

Just myself thinking, that unit can not have been Sabres only weapon of course the must have been weaponised with firearms otherwise would been silly. There where Japanese sword bearing soldiers, so to have a sword handy just in case could be a good idea.......just thinking, not an expert on history
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Re: WW2 "Big Swords Unit" (大刀隊) Motto

Postby yeniseri on Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:50 am

Big Sword Units were so called because that was the only weapon they were able to secure during battle. Functional modern weapons could not be gotten so the best thing was what was available.
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Re: WW2 "Big Swords Unit" (大刀隊) Motto

Postby wayne hansen on Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:51 pm

Trick from what I heard the name didn't come from a lack of other weapons
It was the fact that if they took the Japanese on they would be our gunned so they attacked their camp in the dead of night
If they used guns they would wake up the entire camp and be out numbered
So they went in with sword and struck in silence and disappeared into the night
Don't put power into the form let it naturally arise from the form
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Re: WW2 "Big Swords Unit" (大刀隊) Motto

Postby Steve James on Sun Aug 13, 2017 4:11 pm

Here's an article on the subject. https://chinesemartialstudies.com/2012/11/26/693/
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Re: WW2 "Big Swords Unit" (大刀隊) Motto

Postby Trick on Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:23 pm

wayne hansen wrote:Trick from what I heard the name didn't come from a lack of other weapons
It was the fact that if they took the Japanese on they would be our gunned so they attacked their camp in the dead of night
If they used guns they would wake up the entire camp and be out numbered
So they went in with sword and struck in silence and disappeared into the night

Ok, but after they sliced down the whole Japanese camp they would have had a lot of guns 8-)
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Re: WW2 "Big Swords Unit" (大刀隊) Motto

Postby Strange on Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:37 pm

heh heh
my teacher told me that he understands that one of the tactics used is
to mount a sneak attack in the middle of the night
the men from the sabre unit would go in without their shirts and upper body smeared with oil
they would then sweep their way throughout the enemy camp.
those they feel with clothes on would be chop down
oily skin also made it difficult to catch them, easy to slip away into the night
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i said slowly and evenly; i did not say weakly
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