Internal and Clinch

[Graculus]

If I remember the story right, you did give that Iranian wrestler a helping hand.

Graculus
http://www.ichijoji.blogspot.com

[Trick]

When your opponent has "bear hug" on you, you can also have a "head lock" on him. Who can bend who's spine depending on individual skill/ability.

My only real "street grappling" experience happened when I was 15 and in school I had to leave the class to take a leak. Out in the yard stood one of the "wild and cool"(and a crack head) guys of the school, he approached me talking some shit and close enough just flew at me taking hold a bearhug, I immediately got a good head lock on him and just kind let us fall back on the brick wall that was about a meter behind me letting the guys head take the most impact and that was it for him. Many years later I decided to try stand up wrestling with a couple of wrestlers, that was a good experience since I noticed how my back and neck strength was not up to their backholds, bearhugs and head pulls..... I also believe they would not fall for my brick wall trick if we wrestled in that kind of environment.

[johnwang]

Here is an example of "bear hug" vs. "head lock" (1.00 - 1.04). Many things went wrong for his "head lock".

[willie]

Here is an example of "bear hug" vs. "head lock" (1.00 - 1.04). Many things went wrong for his "head lock".

This is an excellent example of the power of structure and position.
As soon as the guy in white got the other guy flank it was already over. The other major mistake was for the guy wearing the Batman suit. Always secure your position before you try a major move. Nice clip

[dspyrido]

Front bear hug defense (free arms):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQsmMvbKOWs

Gracie NEPA
Published on Sep 11, 2014

A larger more aggressive opponent has gripped you up in a bear hug with your arms free. The immediate danger of being lifted and slammed or folded in half and crushed to the ground must be dealt with:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMa1YbtyX0I

Yup that's it, It's what I said. Create a frame to keep them out and lower your stance.
By the way, Just because I haven't had that tried on me in a long time. I had someone try it.
It didn't do shit, wasn't even dangerous for me at all. I don't really know if it's all the internal work that I've done
or if it's from doing squats and dead lift. kind-of funny how things have changed. I remember that being a very effective move
when I was doing MMA. Now nothing, Generic...

The moves where a hand is placed in the throat to create space don't work against a good wrestler. It's really silly to assume a weak necked wrestler exists and can get a double underhook. Look up giraffe wrestling to see how neck strength is built. Then look at the neck conditioning drills. Plus even if the foreman could be placed on the neck it is very easy to move around and change.

Also lowering to counter the double underhook is exactly what wrestlers are taught and then they are shown the counter. You either rebase/wrestle for the lower position to break the back, drop and turn or go over the top to grab a head and arm (or guillotine).

The other video which does not bother with the neck is the better place to start.

[dspyrido]

So far this thread has shown wrestlers/shuaijiow doing escapes (the bjj forearm on throat moves only work on people who don't know how to wrestle). But I've seen several posts saying this occurs all the time in tai chi.

So where are these tc videos? Looking for ones that are not just cross trained shuaijiow. Or is it that tc is just shuaijiow when the clinch kicks in?

Btw - wrestlers get how to have be heavy on elbows and use angles. They also are well tuned to where the body's center of gravity is.

[marvin8]

Counter to front bear hug underhooks.

martialartstutor
Published on Nov 7, 2017:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUWQZlJkMI8

Counter to double leg takedown.

martialartstutor
Published on Nov 13, 2017

In this reaction video, I go over Master Wong's response to the "mma" (or wrestling) takedown. I once said that I wouldn't review master wong because generally speaking he has spoken some truth as to the ineffective training methods of wing chun against a more competent fighter. However, he does contradict himself and puts out videos like this which is why I decided to review him:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aMN5DKjU4M

[johnwang]

So where are these tc videos?

Can anybody put up a Taiji clip?

[marvin8]

So where are these tc videos?

Can anybody put up a Taiji clip?

Randy Brown Mantis Boxer
Published on Dec 10, 2015

Defenses against the Bear Hug (Body Clinch) to takedown (Crashing Tide). Here we use the Mantis Boxing and Tai Chi principle known as Kao (Lean), to establish position and counter the takedown. Once established - recede into the opponent’s center to reverse them into a throw:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjLk2H60kFc

Randy Brown Mantis Boxer
Published on Dec 3, 2015

Episode 09 we focus on a Mantis Boxing principle known as Kao (Lean). Using the Kao principle, Randy creates space to clear and reverse the hooks and lock out the shoulder. Some finishing moves on the ground are provided as well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lrsv_rjB4M

[willie]

So where are these tc videos?

Can anybody put up a Taiji clip?

I can put up a clip right now. I have the fortunate luxury of having MMA experience and transferring all of that to my son who is extremely athletic and about 20 years younger. Who also has friends from Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and MMA and his best friend was his wrestling partner all through Junior High School, then on to high school, and then on to Collegiate wrestling. But what I have found is that trolls who are worthless parasitic entities of a human beings decide that they're going to make commentary videos on Arts that they don't have any knowledge of at all so why bother.

[origami_itto]

So where are these tc videos?

Can anybody put up a Taiji clip?

I can put up a clip right now. I have the fortunate luxury of having MMA experience and transferring all of that to my son who is extremely athletic and about 20 years younger. Who also has friends from Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and MMA and his best friend was his wrestling partner all through Junior High School, then on to high school, and then on to Collegiate wrestling. But what I have found is that trolls who are worthless parasitic entities of a human beings decide that they're going to make commentary videos on Arts that they don't have any knowledge of at all so why bother.

[willie]

Now can I return to my forms? LOL!

[johnwang]

Are you left handed? This old man was left handed too. In SC, that's called "捅(Tong) - Striking push".

[Subitai]

So where are these tc videos?

Can anybody put up a Taiji clip?

Randy Brown Mantis Boxer
Published on Dec 10, 2015

Defenses against the Bear Hug (Body Clinch) to takedown (Crashing Tide). Here we use the Mantis Boxing and Tai Chi principle known as Kao (Lean), to establish position and counter the takedown. Once established - recede into the opponent’s center to reverse them into a throw:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjLk2H60kFc

Randy Brown Mantis Boxer
Published on Dec 3, 2015

Episode 09 we focus on a Mantis Boxing principle known as Kao (Lean). Using the Kao principle, Randy creates space to clear and reverse the hooks and lock out the shoulder. Some finishing moves on the ground are provided as well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lrsv_rjB4M

For both videos you just showed? I don't mean offensively towards you when I say this but, "what the fuck does a guy have to say??? Top of page 3 I said it already.

In the 1st video...the guy demonstrating does a "Head and Arm" ...he can call it Kao all he wants..it's not accurate IMO. = It's called a "Head and Arm". In Taiji it would just be called some sort of "Shuai" or Throw...but not shoulder or Lean.

In the 2nd video...his entire premise is based off being able to Swim the arm under 1st...again slaps forehead.
- 1st arm bar he shows in this video (using his head as the 5th appendage) does work..but seriously only VS a NEWBIE or someone who is dead tired. Otherwise, it's extremely difficult vs grapplers because they ALWAYS PRESSURE FORWARD. I've had people try this on me and all you need to do is pressure forward and strike with your free hand...he won't make you TAP and you'll be free.

- In the 2nd Lock where he swims under the elbow again and gets behind the shoulder. Again, only vs NEWBS or someone whos dead tired.

* The reason for failure is do to attempting it on a standing opponent. This standing version is the kinda move you see in Demos with cooperate students and such. They keep their arms LOOSE and free for the demo. In reality, it fails easily VS a standing opponent who can wiggle and leverage his arm with strength to resist.

** On the ground however (ie. on your knees and such), where there is less wiggle room...this is a common method that works well.

[willie]

Are you left handed? This old man was left handed too. [/quote]
Hi John no actually I'm right handed. I use the left foot forward because my original first style was American boxing. It's funny that you said that because I was one of the only ones in karate with a left foot forward everyone else was right.