Are there still schools with Spiritual Aspects

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Are there still schools with Spiritual Aspects

Postby Aqui on Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:31 pm

Hey guys :)

I am leaning far out the window for this post and will probably get ridiculed from quite a few... but anyway here's my question:

Are there still martial art schools that have and teach a spiritual practice without having lost their martial side?

Some years ago I trained under a filipino teacher who was a proper fighter (and fought for real in his youth in SEA) yet he was a deeply spiritual man teaching and living his esoterics (oracion, anting anting, rituals,...). As many won't believe in such things (which is fine with me), but he could produce some weird stuff and would teach aspects of it.
At one point family obligations forced him to go back to the Filippines and I lost contact.

So do you guys know of such a teacher? Can be CIMA or other, the quality is important, not the label!

You can PM me if you like.

Thank you,

Aqui
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Re: Are there still schools with Spiritual Aspects

Postby Trick on Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:40 pm

Are the Yellow Bamboo's still around?........sorry............My first Taiji teacher did just a little Filipino MA in the Philippines, the old teacher he met there focused a lot on spiritual practice, I guess it is widely practiced in the Pihlipines......Don't know if Glima wrestlers of today still writes specific "magical" runic signs on a piece of paper to be put in the shoes, must be some spiritual aspect to that.
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Re: Are there still schools with Spiritual Aspects

Postby Appledog on Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:00 am

My teacher is deeply into the spiritual aspect of the neijia, in that it has come out of such practices. He's gone back to several (real) monks [real monks -- yet another issue i will deal with maybe another day].

The thing is that there is a spiritual aspect to these kinds of neijia styles which is where they came from originally, from temple x or temple y, mountain x or y, etc. that's where they came from, and while the art can be separated from the spiritual aspect I think that sometimes the things that were cut out were arbitrary. I mean that the original way was a little simpler, and in this particular case that is the way it is supposed to be. A lot of times you see people rephrasing what they were taught out of some temple with the normal martial arts they picked up in their youth, or outside the temple, into something new. In a way this is because (IMO) the arts that are taught as 'temple arts' aren't really martial arts in the way you would conceive them or as they would be taught in your average CLF/hung gar/etc school. They can become that but it's just a different focus I think.

Another thing you will find if you go into some kind of spiritual aspect of martial arts is that the martial arts you find (generally) represent 'freezing' of a certain level of development and then working within that level of development as a platform to support the martial art in order that it can be 'used' in that way. The challenge you will find on that kind of road is to develop some kind of usable skills which translate well between various levels you will go through, such that you don't need to throw away your skills as you progress or to continuously learn new skills.

The exercises that have been developed to deal with this tend to be very soft, circular, and general. Kind of like doing ba duan jin or some other basic qigong set. But really it's the foundation for a very high level.

My teacher is difficult to understand when he talks about this stuff but he's repeated it several times in various ways and I think I have a decent grasp of what I have to do next.
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Re: Are there still schools with Spiritual Aspects

Postby willie on Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:31 am

Appledog wrote: I think I have a decent grasp of what I have to do next.


Hi appledog.
Would you mind answering one thing. Which is?
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Re: Are there still schools with Spiritual Aspects

Postby Bao on Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:36 am

"Are there still martial art schools that have and teach a spiritual practice without having lost their martial side?"

What kind of spiritual practice do you ask for? Religious or philosophical? Or something else?
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Re: Are there still schools with Spiritual Aspects

Postby Aqui on Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:00 pm

Thank you very much, Appledog!
Sounds very interesting, could you tell me more about the spiritual aspects of your teachers teachings and about the effects they have? You can PM me if you don't want to discuss openly!

Thank you Bao for your post, I am looking neither for philosophical nor religious practice, neither of them produces (in my experience) real results.
As I said my philipino teacher could produce real graspable results, not just insights or realisations (though both are very important, just not what I am specifically looking for). So I am looking for methods to actually get results.
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Re: Are there still schools with Spiritual Aspects

Postby Bao on Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:03 pm

So I guess you mean teachers with "special" or "mystic" skills? ???
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Re: Are there still schools with Spiritual Aspects

Postby Aqui on Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:20 pm

Bao wrote:So I guess you mean teachers with "special" or "mystic" skills? ???


Sorry, I think the problem is that spiritual means different things for different people...
But "special" or "mystic" skill are exactly what I mean (for me they fall in the spiritual category) :)
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Re: Are there still schools with Spiritual Aspects

Postby Aqui on Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:21 pm

Did you ever experience a teacher with "special" / "mystic" skills, Bao?
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Re: Are there still schools with Spiritual Aspects

Postby Bao on Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:06 pm

Aqui wrote:Did you ever experience a teacher with "special" / "mystic" skills, Bao?


:-X
.
.
.
.
.
.
;D

No, not really. But I've heard some interesting stories...
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Re: Are there still schools with Spiritual Aspects

Postby Trick on Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:33 pm

I don't know, but I would think if ones spiritual level is high one would not feel the need of practicing pugilism. If the chosen spiritual practice is deep there would not be any thoughts at all about pugilism.....Now, put on the armor of God-https://m.wikihow.com/Put-on-the-Armor-of-God :)
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Re: Are there still schools with Spiritual Aspects

Postby Appledog on Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:36 pm

willie wrote:
Appledog wrote: I think I have a decent grasp of what I have to do next.


Hi appledog.
Would you mind answering one thing. Which is?


In general terms, increase my practice time. There's nothing particularly wrong or lacking in what I do it's just that I need to do more of it if I want to see more results. A little gets a little, a lot gets a lot.
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Re: Are there still schools with Spiritual Aspects

Postby Appledog on Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:25 pm

Aqui wrote:Thank you very much, Appledog!
Sounds very interesting, could you tell me more about the spiritual aspects of your teachers teachings and about the effects they have? You can PM me if you don't want to discuss openly!

Thank you Bao for your post, I am looking neither for philosophical nor religious practice, neither of them produces (in my experience) real results.
As I said my philipino teacher could produce real graspable results, not just insights or realisations (though both are very important, just not what I am specifically looking for). So I am looking for methods to actually get results.


But that's what it is -- philosophy, philosophical and religious practice.

These things are like Yang Cheng Fu's 10 important points, or getting hundreds of "corrections" to your form over the years (decades). To a certain extent you need to go through this, there are aids and 'shortcuts' (good shortcuts) here, but in the end the result is exactly the same so it is incorrect to say that 'neither of them produces..' results. In your experience or not! In this case they didn't produce results for "you". This is one of the hardest lessons I had to learn which is where to put your trust, in the beginning it is very difficult, but the religious and philosophic practices I was taught definitely helped me figure out where to put my trust and why. As a result I was able to make several quantum leaps which I would not have been able to make otherwise.

Everyone's position and level is different and there is a general path up the mountain but there are also many side paths, shortcuts, ladders, and bridges. A good teacher will be able to find the correct methods for you to advance, a bad teacher will make you go up the long way. But all in all there are no mysterious or 'spiritual' skills of that nature, it all reduces to hard work and personal realizations, of which taking personal responsibility for yourself and your art is the biggest one.
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Re: Are there still schools with Spiritual Aspects

Postby middleway on Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:41 am

Serge Augiers Da Xuan Tradition is a complete system of spiritual pracitce, lifestyle practice and martial practice. As i understand it, the students of the school focus as much on meditation and Taoist training as on the fighting arts.

Thanks.
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Re: Are there still schools with Spiritual Aspects

Postby Tiga Pukul on Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:06 am

There are still quite a bit of Silat schools that include Spiritual Aspects. Similar to what is practiced in the Phillipines. And yes also without loosing the martial side. I heard some crazy stories from Pencak Silat teachers returning from Indonesia to the Netherlands with plenty of knowledge in those aspects. Inducing Trance within seconds, Manipulation, Stopping people from a distance, Predicting time of illness or death, Putting people into trance and let them fight each other whilst in trance etc.etc.

An area which i prefer to steer clear from, but I know it exists and is still practiced.
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