Steve James wrote:Here's the thing. If you can't do something, you can't say you understand it; and, if you don't understand it, you can't explain it. The problem with this debate is that few of the people who argue for the existence of "empty force" (whatever they mean by it) say that they actually possess it. If they did, they'd collect John's $10K reward. It'd be the same as if I said I could do one finger push ups, and someone called me on it. But, we only discuss whether someone else (on video or in the past) can or has demonstrated empty force.
Sure, I'll bet almost everyone wh's been around long enough has seen or felt extraordinary things. My point has nothing to do with whether or not anyone's experience is legit. I'm just saying that only those who are willing to demonstrate should be arguing. Otherwise, the effort is wasted.
Steve James wrote:It's worth even less effort to talk about those who don't acknowledge or believe in empty force than to argue with those who do. Showing a video of what someone else does or has done to them never proves anything.
I can't speak for aiki, but all I said was that people who claim to have it argue for it.
Steve James wrote:If you can't do something, you can't say you understand it; ...
johnwang wrote:Steve James wrote:If you can't do something, you can't say you understand it; ...
Agree with you 100% there. If someone says that he can do empty force, he should put up a clip to prove it.
I have said that I like to coordinate my hand with my foot. When my foot stop, my hand stop (not keep moving). Here is a clip to prove it.
Is it about them or it, not everyone is at the same level of the some of the more public masters...Why do many post clips of pro fighters commenting on what they do and not of themselves. Even posting clips of masters who demo, with commentary in chinese explaining it, some have problems with the concept of it
As to my self I am known in the community i move in. Acknowledged for my own small skill in something that I am still very much working on. I've been invited to give and help with others events in the Chinese community demoing this aspect. Among the Chinese teachers there many of them either know me or of me...nothing to prove or disprove here.
I've always said and maintain whether touched or not the process by which it works in s the same. Most feel this aspect at first touch..
I try to coordinate my
- left downward parry, right comb hair with my right foot landing.
- left arm wrap, right head lock with my left foot landing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfR-yJL ... e=youtu.be
Here is Zhao’s secret, in his own words: I didn’t copy my teacher. I stole his ideas. As a painter, this remark really struck a chord. Picasso said it too. Good artists copy …. great artists steal.
windwalker wrote:Are there many people who can not do what they say,,,sure in all fields this is true...
johnwang wrote:windwalker wrote:Are there many people who can not do what they say,,,sure in all fields this is true...
IMO, it's better to talk about what you can do and not talk about what you can't do. If I can only use my head lock to crash a small watermelon (a bit harder than a big watermelon), I will not say that I can use my head lock to crash a coconut.
If you can't prove what you have said, you will lose your credit forever.
windwalker wrote:One of my classmates in Beijing makes a practice of visiting masters trying their hand to see if what they say is true or not.
In the bay area he had attracted a following. At a local push hands park, he threw some one down
Saying in Chinese " who is your teacher, your teacher didn't teach you shit"
for those understanding what he said it made them laugh, for the one thrown down
it pissed him off...
He is in Beijing at this time and would welcome anyone wanting to train under him or find out more about his art.
.
Trick wrote:You and your classmate both studied empty-force with your teacher ? Is your friend using EF against push-hand practitioners or PH against PH practitioners ? If he is not using EF, why?
windwalker wrote:Trick wrote:You and your classmate both studied empty-force with your teacher ? Is your friend using EF against push-hand practitioners or PH against PH practitioners ? If he is not using EF, why?
Studied sounds very strange.
You seem to have missed the point somewhere.
I said whether touched or not the process by which it works is the same. It's part of a skill set of a much larger process.
It's not whether one uses it or not it's just part of what one does among other skills. A understanding of what not using force means and why it's different from using what's called force.
[/quote]Trick wrote:
Ok, so empty force is an byproduct kind of that just seem to happen sometimes, not something you specifically study to gain?
I would have to say it depends on the linage and teachers skill set as to the what, how and why some thing is taught or not. For my teacher everything he did whether touched or not contained the skill set. The levels as they develop are, skin, hair, and air all refering to the correct touch at the point of contact.
One soon learns what happens when force is used or not used either way is bad, as there is another agent at work....something very apparent after one is tossed a couple of times.
The link has a little of his bio and my own story of how we met.
https://journeytoemptiness.com/2017/01/ ... yongliang/
.....But then how come some “masters” happily demonstrating this EF over and over on devoted students, aren’t these students there to study and hopefully masters this unique “power”?
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