Good blog by military professional

[neijia_boxer]

Interesting that you guys found kevins blog. i know him from usajj.com here in Va, he has alot of good ideas.

[Chris McKinley]

I hope he will join us then. Perhaps more selfishly, I also hope that he will be another voice for combative/empirical/pragmatic reality in training. Authentic Chinese Internal Martial Arts should no more fear that perspective than the truth fears inquiry.

[neijia_boxer]

kevin is highly involved in the Military combatives program i believe, John gorman who is Pres. of USAjj.com is also high level Army combatives program, and is lobbying to congress to support combatives and bjj for armed forces and non-profit for civilians. the company i am contracted with: Torres AES supplies the military with combatives trainers and also trains security forces in South America to do mercanary work in Iraq and Afghanistan- payed security forces not using US troops. Torres sponsors usajj.com and they have 4 red belts in Brazil assisting with many different countries to start their own national bjj events and teams so to get bjj as an olympic event one day.

[Chris McKinley]

neijia boxer,

Please, if possible and convenient, keep me informed of the progress of your organization. As a former trainer myself, I am very interested in keeping tabs on the state of military combatives as well as outsourced training. Thanks.

[Doc Stier]

[Chanchu]

I am really glad to see all branches of the military try to get into some type of effective reasonably safe H2H combat system standardize ( as much as possible) it and implement it. The military needs to sit down and develop effective methods of teaching conditioning to its people. A lot of people are getting hurt running- just from the shock of exceeding their conditioning level while running for military fit tests the AKA "Fun Run's".. Its not a joke if a study was done to show the sick call figures and off duty time costs from improper exercise by the troops- it would be considerable.

Effective programs for both combat and conditioning need to be developed and put in place. The younger troops when exposed to H2H combat training really love it- the older troops well not so much..

[Leimeng]

I am really glad to see all branches of the military try to get into some type of effective reasonably safe H2H combat system standardize ( as much as possible) it and implement it. The military needs to sit down and develop effective methods of teaching conditioning to its people. A lot of people are getting hurt running- just from the shock of exceeding their conditioning level while running for military fit tests the AKA "Fun Run's".. Its not a joke if a study was done to show the sick call figures and off duty time costs from improper exercise by the troops- it would be considerable.

Effective programs for both combat and conditioning need to be developed and put in place. The younger troops when exposed to H2H combat training really love it- the older troops well not so much..

~ Another aspect of this issue is that a lot of younger officers (idiots) are afraid of the idea of developing a warrior culture. It is amazing how much antagonism to this idea exists on a lot of the military forums I have read. Only the Marines are willing to to actively promote the concept. The army is afraid that it will alienate them from the civilian population. The navy is afraid to let a seaman develop skills that might be better than those that outrank them. The Airforce is a afraid that it will make people think they are military! The AF is also afraid that someone will cry and run to social actions for having their precious feelings hurt.
~ I remember years ago in the AF we had to run weekly. In SAC we had to run three times a week as a squadon and do real PT. Then they made PT voluntary. As long as you could pass your once yearly test, you were good to go. So people would go run once a year with cigarettes hanging out of their mouth, and pass the test, and then have a heart attack. Recently, they have started to insist on some sort of formal weekly PT.
~ I am glad I am out, but if I had to do it over again I would do the USMC.
~ Continue to discuss amongst yourselves...

Peace,

Leimeng

Flatulo Ergo Sum ~~~

How come stars are "in" a movie, but they're "on" TV?

(***Insert Personal One Liner Here***)

[bigphatwong]

~ Another aspect of this issue is that a lot of younger officers (idiots) are afraid of the idea of developing a warrior culture. It is amazing how much antagonism to this idea exists on a lot of the military forums I have read. Only the Marines are willing to to actively promote the concept. The army is afraid that it will alienate them from the civilian population. The navy is afraid to let a seaman develop skills that might be better than those that outrank them. The Airforce is a afraid that it will make people think they are military! The AF is also afraid that someone will cry and run to social actions for having their precious feelings hurt.

The Coast Guard is afraid they might break a nail. Unless you happen to be assigned to a Port Security Unit, your warrior training consists of lots of "paint the deck" accompanied by long-distance vomiting and the occasional seal-clubbing.

Come to think of it, only once during my entire 5-year stint did we receive training in defensive tactics, and what did we spend the whole afternoon doing? Muay Thai, with some ASP baton techniques. In the event of actual combat with violent drug lords, you'd be better off pulling a can of pepper spray and screaming like a Catholic schoolgirl.

[Ian]

In the event of actual combat with violent drug lords, you'd be better off pulling a can of pepper spray and screaming like a Catholic schoolgirl.

thankfully, I am proficient in this style.

[Iskendar]

Interesting that you guys found kevins blog. i know him from usajj.com here in Va, he has alot of good ideas.

He occasionally posts in the aikiweb forums, particularly in the "Non-aikido martial traditions" subforum.

[Strange]

ah chris amnesia, how nice some say it a coping mechanism of the mind... selective memory like
i'm glad you do not dislike me, it a relief really

my views? well, mang, i practice an art from a daoist whose existence may be questionable
to you most likely it will come off as "introspective, martial-artsy.... horseshit...."
oh no but wait, now you're saying traditional stuff are ok, how nice
but mang you got me all confused... let me try and sort this out here... sorry mang i'm a tad slow....aha.. ah... okay... yeah
ha ha ha you have amnesia and i am confused, we are turning out to be quite a pair huh?

military? civilian? you mean when comes to fighting skill they must be/are different? or you mean when i change from my jeans and t shirt to camouflage i as a human become different? or do you mean that when one set of instruction works on civilians; and then when they change to their military uniform it does not work anymore?

frankly, i find your classification strange and illogical, i dun understand... but like i said i'm slow

[Doc Stier]

military? civilian? you mean when comes to fighting skill they must be/are different? or you mean when i change from my jeans and t shirt to camouflage i as a human become different? or do you mean that when one set of instruction works on civilians; and then when they change to their military uniform it does not work anymore?

Strange:

True, serious fighting involves risk of personal injury anywhere. Nonetheless, civilian street fighting in your own town and military H2H in a totally hostile combat zone on a distant part of the planet usually are significantly different scenarios. It doesn't take an Einstein to figure that out once you're there.

Most guys would probably prefer to get hurt close to home, where they are more likely to have friendly contacts and personal resources readily available to assist them. Additionally, most civilian street fights occur under much different circumstances, and usually don't involve fighting large numbers of enemies who are dedicated to killing you in any way they can.

Doc Stier

[Chris McKinley]

Strange,

I see you're still choosing to continue to be an ass about it, even though you've been offered a civil discussion. Oh well...so be it. I guess some people simply lack the ability to disagree without being disagreeable.

You did bring up a couple of things which are actually on-topic, so I'll address those.

RE: "my views? well, mang, i practice an art from a daoist whose existence may be questionable
to you most likely it will come off as "introspective, martial-artsy.... horseshit...."". Dunno. Maybe. Then again, that same possibility exists for anyone on this board, including me. It all depends on how you are training your stuff, just like it does for the rest of us.

RE: "oh no but wait, now you're saying traditional stuff are ok, how nice". I've spent many years defending (and demonstrating) the combat viability of the IMA to high-speed military professionals, LEO's, and reality-oriented civilian instructors and practitioners. And I'd venture to say probably on far more numerous occasions than the average poster on this or any other IMA discussion board. Anyone else who's done so will tell you that that is most definitely an uphill battle given the IMA's reputation as nearly irredeemable bullshit in terms of its combat effectiveness. I was also one of the stronger forum voices defending TMA in the ridiculous MMA/TMA feud that was in full swing about 10 years ago. All that's to say that it's also possible I might not think your practice is horseshit.

RE: "military? civilian? you mean when comes to fighting skill they must be/are different?". They can be, not that they must be. I've explained numerous times that the real combat needs of the civilian and the soldier are actually closer to each other than either is to the LEO. LEO's have to use minimal force at all times, and are required to attempt to subdue an aggressor rather than eliminate him or simply achieve egress. Controlling someone is always much harder than either eliminating him or leaving the situation.

RE: "or you mean when i change from my jeans and t shirt to camouflage i as a human become different? or do you mean that when one set of instruction works on civilians; and then when they change to their military uniform it does not work anymore?". Both your smartass sarcasm and your ignorance of different training needs are too thinly veiled here. Clothing has nothing to do with it. Some of the most high-speed, low-drag operators wear civilian clothes to work anyway. Capacity to understand instruction is obviously not a factor, unless you are attempting to insult either military personnel or civilians.

What you either fail to grasp out of both ignorance and inexperience, or are simply conveniently ignoring in order to make a smartass comment, is that the circumstances, engagement requirements, obligations and consequences of the military soldier and the peaceful civilian are not always exactly identical, and in fact can differ not only dramatically, but in predictable patterns. Therefore, the training needs can be very different. Not always, as I mentioned previously, but sometimes radically, and it takes someone who knows the difference to be able to tailor the training to either group accordingly.

RE: "frankly, i find your classification strange and illogical, i dun understand... but like i said i'm slow". I'd love to know what you find strange and illogical about it and why. I'd also like to hear more about your background as both a civilian and military instructor so we might have some idea of where you're coming from to make such an evaluation.

[Bodywork]

Interesting that you guys found kevins blog. i know him from usajj.com here in Va, he has alot of good ideas.

He occasionally posts in the aikiweb forums, particularly in the "Non-aikido martial traditions" subforum.

Actually he posts MOSTLY in the the rest of Aikiweb. The non aikido forum was created because of continual input from me, Upyou and "he who shall not be named" continually bringing up internal training and how it creates aiki and for years and very much annoying aikido teachers and a few others. strangely enough it caused a lot of teachers to get out and feel what we were doing and talking about, and now dozens of their arts teachers are now training this way-including some of their most senior level instructors. Its become something of a grand experiment in aikido here in the states.
Dan

[Strange]

well, gents, i'm no instructor, but i study LiuHeBaFa. What do you study chris?
i have explained why i find it to be strange and illogical, but perhaps you choose not to understand.

you say that capacity to understand instruction is obviously not a factor, and yet talk and lament about the "fundamental flaw"... now why is that? do try not to put words in my mouth, i insult nobody, i have said that ma is not something for everyone. it does not matter that you understand the instruction; or can do it in classroom condition; if you cannot do it when the situation calls for it, it dun really matter.

well about LEO using minimum force at all time... pleeeaaassee, both you and i know that is not the case now is it? police in singapore now carry a Taurus revolver with laser point, they also have a nightstick and cable-tie and/or steel hand-cuffs. usually, they move in, miniumm in pairs. if they need they can radio in for back up or call in SWAT. and as i understand it, if a policeman's life is endangered, he/she is authorised to use deadly force and i nearly forgot about dang TASERS.... i think the police procedure should not be far from where you come from... now you are saying that control is an issue... but like you say perhaps i am ignorant so help me out.

Doc, i think you misunderstand me. what i meant was is the external environment suppose to affect the skill that you have? if it does then something is definitely wrong; cos its only good in the dojo with a cooperative partner. unless its a challenge, i believe it is very difficult to control the external location of a fight.

if there are many enemies.... i recommend the sub-machine gun. my current fav - Kriss Super V