cloudz wrote:Ok, story time.. I guess. Some deeper background and backdrop becomes necessary. The Status Quo can be revisited at some point in the future perhaps. Indulge me.
First point is kind of the one I started with;
It's worth remembering that MR is a mystic, so while it is psychology; in current western terminology, his personal beliefs may involve similar ideas and concepts shared by all mystics..
I happen to be "a mystic" as well; I even practiced Hesychasm for a while.
Mystics are quite often, in my view, Universalists. Or should be..
In this case I will say categorically Chi is one and the same as Universal Christ.
People from both the eastern Dogma and the Western will no doubt argue against that position.
No problem, as well they might. This is no more or less than the Perennial Philosophy.
I'm just a follower of that philosophy.
It's nothing particularly mystical when you put it down to the subconscious and the underlying working of all Nature (Tao).
So not necessarily Supernatural but natural. A natural Science, A Social Science even. Dualistic categories are usually one of the first things a mystic needs to deconstruct in their mind.
But essentially It's learning to tap into the primordial stream of information.
Is how I would begin to frame it.
These guys reducing it to body tricks like Mizners Chi film does, do the whole world of Internal Arts a disservice. Martial or not.
Honestly I think how it's been integrated by Eastern martial schools is probably a worse outcome. All knowledge needs updating and integrating with new knowledge, it is 100% as simple as that. Hanging on to tradition and old writing as if it is sacred doesn't work long term. We wind up with a cultural and antiquated relic.
I describe it with "force" because it can have a powerful effect on people as history repeatedly shows.
In the 'ancient times' (lol) there were Mystery schools, both Eastern and Western.
And to some degree military training and know how mingled and crossed with "spiritual power".
The most famous perhaps from the East are the Ninja Clans; from which I was initiated. The stories are the stories and if we are to believe them; in my case a Japanese family moved to the UK in the 1950's who traced a lineage back, a long time, to something called the Blue Mountain Sect. Who in turn traced an origin story back to China.
My first teacher taught me stuff that literally transformed me into a Mystic. It was a kind of indoctrination I guess, his main method was teaching 108 precepts, 3 a week. To describe it as "work", it would be the basic work of transforming the mind I guess. To a certain way of thinking about the world. Nothing particularly sinister or dodgy. It was certainly Cult Like, but with nice benevolent people.
The most famous and successful Western order crossing Military and Mystery School boundaries would be the Knights Templar. Nothing resembling Eastern Martial arts really exists; where mind-body knowledge is integrated in a martial framework.
Today we have remaining things like Free Masonry of Western Mystery Schools, for example. Basically what would be considered at certain times coveted knowledge (the psychology and philosophy teaching).
The Gnostics got written out of Christianity for a reason. Because essentially Gnosticism put the 'power' in the hands of the everyday people.
Rather than the lucky ones who would normally be schooled in 'the mysteries'.
By my way of Reckoning; Jesus was simply another dude trying to spread power to the people.
Like other 'White Hat' Prophets and mystical teachers.
Like anything, knowledge can be used to good ends or dark ends. Suppressing it must be considered in darker territory at times.
It may not even be intentional as the road to hell can often be paved with good ones.
It's only really MR that puts on no touch demonstrations. I didn't get involved in this chat, to criticise or judge him. My goals are aligned with understanding things better; people, situations, myself. Martial arts and the activities there in are nice and fun and stuff. But real violence is abhorrent and men are capable of "evil" acts and activities. Personally I would choose away from no touch martial activities - however they get framed. No touch two person chi gung; yea actually why not. been there done that and it was a cool but essentially harmless thing. Not say psychological (psycho-somatic) martial arts displays are necessarily harmful, but i don't see the helpfulness rising above a breakdown of other martial exercises and drills/ methods and a teaching of straight up the psychology reserved for mentalists and hypnotists (today) essentially.
No doubt there's more to directly reply to. But let's all bask in the Status Quo for a while.
When neither side wants to budge, that's when you call the mediators in.
Returning to the Global story; In the East things stayed Holistic, martial arts systems took on ever more baggage from spiritual and religious systems. In the West however things didn't go that way. Aristotle and Plato is really where things kind of change and diverge for the West. That is a story for the ages !
Now we are left with a tale of two paradigms essentially - in my view at least.
Even still neither is the territory, they are both still maps.
But that is the typical thing a true Mystic would insist on.
In my assessment of what a true Mystic really is; or should be at least.
My teachers teacher (ninja dude) despite all his other learning and knowledge winded up telling stories in my latter years at the school.
Recently i have realised that's the direction I need to go, to write, to tell stories. For kids, for parents, for friends and for family. Integrate and practice and share martial arts a certain way alongside that. I imagine it to be very vanilla, something for everyone but not too bland, god forbid. Where Sciences and Arts meet and greet each other.
Peace be upon us.
All I'm going to say here is that my experience with mystery schools and western hermeticism differs greatly from what you've written here. But then I wasn't initiated into a Ninja clan so... maybe that's the thing.
Probably chief among the differences is that I've come to realize/believe that we're all one entity attempting to experience and understand itself through multiple perspectives. I tend to view injuring others physically or psychologically as directly harming myself as well.
The one thing I will clear up is about the gnostics. They were very much a mystery school.
The sunday school version of Christianity most of us in the west are force fed from a young age is simply that, basic stories for children to help keep them from being so horrible.
Some people would never get beyond that, they stay in sky daddy zone their whole life and that's perfectly fine and acceptable and useful for them and for us. These are the people that say things like "IF there wasn't a God you could rape and kill all you want". Yes, I do rape and kill all I want, which is to say not at all, and I don't understand why you need a father figure in the clouds to keep you from doing it.
The people that start to question these stories would be initiated into the greater mysteries to the extent that they were capable of making practical use of them. The deeper the mystery, the more was required morally from the aspirant as they start providing a great deal of power and freedom, You realize you CAN rape and kill all you want.
Bishop Irraneous was the head honcho for the largest Christian sect at the time. There were also sub sects that had (among others) each fastened on to one of the synoptic gospels as competing scriptures. Give them a looksee, they have some fundamental differences.
Then there were also the gnostics with their own gospels and interpretations. Christianity was under attack. Irreneous felt that the only right course of action was to consolidate, so he began a campaign of bringing them together.
Regarding the gnostics, he felt they were too elitist and they were confusing people and excluding people from full participation, so he really started pushing for the simple version and eliminating the mystery traditions. In the end, he won out.
For a great deal of detail and information, dates and names and places, letters detailing the politics, I recommend Elaine Pagel's body of work, particularly "The Gnostic Gospels"