Re: Empty Force
Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:00 pm
The springiness and seemingly no effort from perfect timing and angles is something we've all surely experienced in MA or sports. That isn't the same thing as the weird stuff in demos.
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LaoDan wrote:WW,
Us/We = those that read your posts, myself included.
What makes you think that Chuckrow’s interpretation of Treatise 7 applies to kongjin? I read it over carefully and did not find anything supporting “air level” or even “hair level” practices. In my interpretation of it, it could be used to support my position against the “no force” approach.
It might be better to open another thread on it less confusion. This one is IMO done.
While I would have some minor disagreements with his conditions and other statements, the article is for the most part OK, especially since he includes section 8 and 11, without which the information would have been much less applicable to typical realistic free play interactions.
If anyone wishes to, we could start another thread analyzing Chuckrow’s article, section by section. It appears that my interpretations differ from WW, so there may be material for discussion.
However, I learned from one of my teachers, Sam Chin Fan-siong, that the center of the spherical surface at the point of contact with the opponent does not even have to be within your body—it can be anywhere as long as (a) your body is inside the extension of the spherical surface at the contact point and (b) the force you exert is perpendicularly outward from that surface. One of Chin’s favorite defensive stances, “The Beggar’s Stance,” which illustrates this concept, involves facing the opponent with arms outstretched to create convex surfaces (see Figs. 7 and 8). Employing a sphere whose center is not that of your body does not negate any of the above analyses. Simply substitute the words center of the spherical surface for the words center of your body in the above analyses.
If the average person walked into Min's class and demanded a sample of empty force, he would be refused - not because empty force is a secret, but because without training and chi development that person could be seriously injured. If Min only used enough of her own chi for him to feel the effects, he might have a headache, become dizzy, turn pale, or lose consciousness. My teacher mention almost the exact same thing, and yes it did make us and others that visited get or feel sick as my friends student from HI did... Any less and her chi would merely pass through his body unfelt. Yet in a fight, the result could be tremendous. For these reasons, only students who have developed their own chi strength can experience the empty force.Not really true in my experience I would say most can feel something provided they can lower their own inner noise level..
The center of the spherical surface at the point of contact with the opponent does not even have to be within your body—it can be anywhere as long as (a) your body is inside the extension of the spherical surface at the contact point and (b) the force you exert is perpendicularly outward from that surface.
oragami_itto wrote:Did you miss the part directly after that where he says a contact in point is required?The center of the spherical surface at the point of contact with the opponent does not even have to be within your body—it can be anywhere as long as (a) your body is inside the extension of the spherical surface at the contact point and (b) the force you exert is perpendicularly outward from that surface.
windwalker wrote: One of Chin’s favorite defensive stances, “The Beggar’s Stance,” which illustrates this concept, involves facing the opponent with arms outstretched to create convex surfaces (see Figs. 7 and 8). Employing a sphere whose center is not that of your body does not negate any of the above analyses. Simply substitute the words center of the spherical surface for the words center of your body in the above analyses.