Moving vs. standing for "health"

[RobP2]

Basically when we don't move, our bodies still produce the same amount of energy but it doesn't all get used, when we move fast we use most of what is produced, and if we go to the point of being out of breath, then we use more than is being produced. Once energy is converted from one form to another it can't be converted back so it gets stored somewhere.
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What energy is this and how is it converted and where is it stored?

[Ian]

Basically when we don't move, our bodies still produce the same amount of energy but it doesn't all get used, when we move fast we use most of what is produced, and if we go to the point of being out of breath, then we use more than is being produced. Once energy is converted from one form to another it can't be converted back so it gets stored somewhere.

Actually, research shows that even when you're exhausted (e.g. after running a marathon for the average person), you've still only tapped around 5% of your total energy stores. Even when we feel exhausted and we're into anaerobic respiration, there's still plenty left for fight or flight.

Yes I know... that was totally accurate SCIENCE. I don't remember where I read it or the exact figures.

[D_Glenn]

What energy is this and how is it converted and where is it stored?

Does it really matter?



If you do proper ZZ you can feel the difference. Scientific knowledge won't help any, actually that's the idea and requirement of doing wuwei before ZZ or circle turning-- to get rid of distracting thoughts.


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[RobP2]

Switch off your mind, relax and float downstream.....

I guess it doesn't really matter. I guess I'll store even more energy if I sleep instead of ZZ?

[Bao]

S I guess I'll store even more energy if I sleep instead of ZZ?

I've read that you can't compare a meditative state with sleep. The brainwave pattern is really different from sleep. People meditating for long time can enter even deeper states than regular sleep and restore the body quicker than sleep.

Ok, I don't know for sure. But I've read this in scientific papers with scientific studies. I am myself a little bit sceptical though...

[RobP2]

Should be easy to test - meditate without sleep for 48 hours, or try a normal 48 hours with sleep and see how energised you feel

[johnwang]

As for martial ZZ, it's anything but easy. There's a lot going on inside the body that isn't visible externally, which is why it is difficult to judge by appearance whether someone is doing it correctly.

I agree! The martial ZZ is much more difficult, When people said that they can do their ZZ for a long period of time, It just made me feel that I must do something wrong because I can't do this ZZ for any long period of time. Why most of the ZZ trainig does not include this kind of "single leg balance"?



My avatar is one of the ZZ in the SC system and it's called 托天勢(Tuo Tian Shi) - Lift the sky. It's always easier to have 2 feet on the ground.

[Michael Babin]

In the last twenty years, I have done extensive periods of several different types of standing qigong as well as much bagua walking for health as well as martial purposes. With hindsight, almost all were useful as mechanisms for calming the mind, most were difficult to do physically and strengthened the legs and overall posture,

However, nowadays I only teach walking holding the eight mother palms as bagua basic training and/or very basic quiet standing in a simple posture as I have grown to believe that -- overall -- moving qigong is better for the body and mind than standing qigong that is done incorrectly or excessively.

Simple standing methods like "Quiet Standing" or what Tim Cartmell has called The Tru-Balance Posture have their place for teaching postural alignment in those that are stiff or contorted by excessive office work as well as for the discipline of doing something -- standing still -- that most active people will hate or resist. Forcing yourself to do something that you don't like is good training in self-discipline as long as it isn't taken to excess.

As to building health, I think Chuang Tzu had it right a long time ago when talking about how the hinge of a door or gate is less likely to rust shut when it is constantly used -- as long as it is used efficiently and lubricated judiciously. So circle walking for health or doing a slow long Yang taiji form make a lot of sense to me in terms of building certain attributes physically as well as laying the groundwork for a meditative practise that can certainly calm the mind and build character.

But... for those who think that standing qigong on its own will somehow automatically make them better fighters -- go find someone who really knows how to fight outside your own club and test your theory out on him or her.

[C.J.Wang]

But... for those who think that standing qigong on its own will somehow automatically make them better fighters -- go find someone who really knows how to fight outside your own club and test your theory out on him or her.

Nobody here so far has mentioned the idea that standing practice is "all that's needed;" it's a part of the equation.

Another thing I'd like to point out is that I believe standing qigong for health should not be equated to ZZ for martial purposes.

[bruce]

in my experience the people i have met and practiced with the ones who spent many hours of standing meditation practice were not good fighters but had many theories about how to fight/defend.

i think meditation is a very important part of life but no where near as important as movement.

[johnwang]

I believe standing qigong for health should not be equated to ZZ for martial purposes.

So far nobody has ever compared the difference. What's the difference between these 2 different ZZ methods? Do single leg balance, low stance posture, special stretching method, ... exist in standing qigong for health?

[Interloper]

-sumo- what about moving standing?

Old-style shiko is full of internal activity driven by intent, and done properly it develops the ability to shift your mass (cross-body alignment) and to not dedicate your mass/weight to one side of the body ("double-weightedness"). A good part of the general solo-training regimen.

[C.J.Wang]

Although there are many styles of Standing Qigong with various methods of execution in terms of breathing, posturing, and mental focus, I believe the main difference between health and martial standing practice is the degree of tension, or "stretch" for those who are sensitive to the antonyms of relaxation, involved.

Health Qigong/ZZ is usually done in a relaxed manner and for longer periods of time with abdominal breathing and relatively comfortable postures; it's both mentally and physically soothing. Martial ZZ, on the other hand, is anything but a walk in the park; the joints, ligaments, tendons, and muscles are pushed to the limit with the mind constantly stretching and opening them in "uncomfortable" ways designed to build stability and power.

But again, there are more than one ways to do ZZ both for health and martial arts, what I am offering is simply what I have been exposed to.

[I-mon]

Should be easy to test - meditate without sleep for 48 hours, or try a normal 48 hours with sleep and see how energised you feel

sorry Rob but that's clearly not the way it works. meditation is an exercise and a skill which improves with practice. but you know that, I think.

[SPJ]

As for martial ZZ, it's anything but easy. There's a lot going on inside the body that isn't visible externally, which is why it is difficult to judge by appearance whether someone is doing it correctly.

I agree! The martial ZZ is much more difficult, When people said that they can do their ZZ for a long period of time, It just made me feel that I must do something wrong because I can't do this ZZ for any long period of time. Why most of the ZZ trainig does not include this kind of "single leg balance"?



My avatar is one of the ZZ in the SC system and it's called 托天勢(Tuo Tian Shi) - Lift the sky. It's always easier to have 2 feet on the ground.

agreed that standing in posture is "hard".