Unbalancing

[CaliG]

To prevent a problem from happening is much easier than to allow a problem to happen and then try to fix it. This sound like a common sense to me but some Judo population look down upon the "grip fight" for some unknown reason that I cannot figure out.

I agree, I've heard judoka complain that a lot of the matches at the Olympics just turned into grip fighting as if that were a bad thing.

In fact Judo recently made it a rule that you can't grip the pants. On top of that if you hold an unorthodox grip and nothing happens in 5 seconds the ref will penalize you.

This is one thing I like about Sambo (and BJJ stand-up), they don't have all these rules about grips. My favorite judo comes from Europe or more specifically Russia because they embrace grip fighting.

Here's a quote from the Judo Masterclass book "Grips" by Neil Adams on the subject.

The traditional Japanese view looks at grips in terms of hikite (the main pull, which is generally the sleeve grip) and tsurite (the drawing hand, which is generally the lapel grip). Typically, the words carry their own special image which mirrors the action: tsurite, for example, comes from the Japanese word tsuri, to fish, and incorporates the idea of drawing an opponent off balance, just as a fishing rod bends when it draws a fish out of the water.

The modern view of unorthodox attacks typified by the Russian style approaches grips in a very different way. Anything within the rules has become not just acceptable but almost the norm, and there is now a bewildering array of attacking grips, defensive grips and tactical grips in use.

[johnwang]

輸跤不輸把(Shu Jiao Bu Shu Ba) - It's OK to lose by throwing but it's not OK to lose in "grip fight". This is how serious the grip fight is treated in SC. The reality is always true that "if you can't touch me then you can't throw me." Some people look down on tactic and believe you have to win by your skill instead. To me tactic is an important part of your skill.

[CaliG]

Here's a nice example of that in the Russian style.

At first I didn't think much of it, but when you look at the grips there was no way the other guy could counter.

I believe the counter he was going for was hooking the near leg and doing an ankle pick on the other leg, but the other guy had control of both his arms. Pistol gripping the sleeve of the far arm and controlling the near arm by staying tight after collasping it.

[Fubo]

In fact Judo recently made it a rule that you can't grip the pants. On top of that if you hold an unorthodox grip and nothing happens in 5 seconds the ref will penalize you.

I feel lucky sometimes as the school I train at has a lot of instructors from different places, so there's a healthy respect from different methods. I do hate the 5 second rule on unorthodox gripping, as I like to do out side hip throws in which you have to wrap the back from the outside of the arm... I feel like my time is running out much to quickly.

p.s. Cali G, not sure if you got my pm a few months ago, but thanks for the Mifune CD! Much Appreciated.

[CaliG]

p.s. Cali G, not sure if you got my pm a few months ago, but thanks for the Mifune CD! Much Appreciated.

Sure thing, don't mention it.

[Formosa Neijia]

To prevent a problem from happening is much easier than to allow a problem to happen and then try to fix it. This sound like a common sense to me but some Judo population look down upon the "grip fight" for some unknown reason that I cannot figure out.

I agree, I've heard judoka complain that a lot of the matches at the Olympics just turned into grip fighting as if that were a bad thing.

I think it can be if the match just becomes about grip fighting. There's so much more to judo and just grappling in general than gripping. So if you get too caught up with gripping, you don't get to develop anything else.

To me, this is the exact reason you should explore sambo gripping strategies, etc. By varying your grips, you avoid endless fighting for laple/sleeve.

Besides, excessive grip fighting will destroy your hands.

Dave C.

[johnwang]

There's so much more to judo and just grappling in general than gripping.

This is a combat reality check for both Judo and SC as sport. If you can't touch your opponent then you can't throw him no matter how great you throwing skill is, you will be in a total helpless stage if your opponent's skill can prevent you from using your throwing skill. The grip fight is like to deflect an incoming punch, for those who only care about the throwing art and not care much about the striking art, they may feel it's not necessary as part of the game. They may feel that their opponent should stand still and let them just grab and throw. If their opponent moves around then they will treat it as "avoiding fighting". For those who are used to the striking art, it should be an important part of their game plan - move like butterfly.

IMO, the throwing skill is much easier to develop than "how to create a chance to execute your throwing skill". This is why I prefer to spend more time to train my entering strategy than to train my finish strategy (the ratio is about 5 to 1). If everything is right during your entering (your feet position, your hands position, your body angle, ...), all you need is just to let the gravity to do the rest.

[CaliG]

Rhadi Ferguson, the Judo Olympian with blackbelts in judo and bjj refers to grip fighting as the way to stop world class competitors from getting to #1. He says the only way you're going to deal with your Jimmy Pedros, Koga's, Rickson Gracies, Mike Swains, Marcelo Garcias and BJ Penns is by stopping them at zero.

Once they get to 1# they're going to get to #2, #3 and #4. Stopping them at zero is the only way to cut them off. If you can stop them from getting a dominant grip then you can stop them from playing their game. Of course there's more to throwing than grip fighting but without a good grip it's not likely you're going to throw them, outside of shooting in for a double leg but even then you have a grip it's just the legs.

[johnwang]

This is why the throwing art needs to evolve. Nobody will stand there and let you get a good hold of him without some resistance. It's much easier to punch your opponent's head, when he blocks your punching arm, you wrap his blocking arm and move in. It's much harder trying to grab your opponent's arms when he tries to knock your head off. This simple evolution may take many years to achieve but not everybody are willing to make the 1st step. When you feel comfortable in your "sport" environment, you won't feel any need to evolve until one day you have to step outside of your sport environment and deal with the combat environment.

[Ian]

speaking of gripping, that's one reason I like rock climbing so much. IMO there's no better grip training.

[shawnsegler]

Yeah, I've known some climbers who have absolutely sick upperbody strength..including grip.

This one dude used to do like a bazillion handstand pushups. Crazy.

S

[Ian]

of course there are plenty of great grip exercises, but if I had to choose one, it'd be climbing.

it's relatively cheap, fun as hell (to me challenge and games are more effective than eating bitter), works your body in all sorts of awkward positions, has loads of other benefits to MAs as well, and if you can do this, your grip will be pretty hard to defeat!