Fu Style Bagua, Johnny Lee?

[ParryPerson]

Hi, I live in Shreveport Louisiana where Johnny Lee a GM that opened "Lee's Martial Arts", this place in the 70's before moving to Dallas to start White Leopard. He left sifu Glenn Guerin to take care of this place. The linage seems to be

Fu Zhen Song --> Sun Bau Kang (a general in the Chinese republic, escape to Hong Kong during the civil war) --> Johnny Lee Kwong Ming (moved to Dallas, TX).

and then to Glenn Guerin, but the school is still owned by Johnny Lee, after looking around I noticed some places, like internal arts magazine said he was one of the 2 best fu bagua men in the U.S., but, I'm warey of anything a magazine says. I noticed on their "retreats" Lee does near all the arts, save for bagua, which Glenn Guerin does.

Anyone know of or can vouch for this? The linage seems great, but I want to make sure I'm learning a martial art, and not a pretty dance. I can't view a class until later this week, and I'm so new to all this I doubt I'd be able to tell great bagua from poor bagua right offhand.

Thanks for any help!

[Fubo]

I've never met him before, but I've heard great things about Johnny Lee. My 2 Bagua teachers were also disciples under Sun Bo Gong, and the art is completely martially oriented. In the end it really comes down to how the class trains i.e. do they spar regularly? Do they do a lot of applications? etc...

From the Bagua class you should expect to learn forms (Some people teach all or some of the forms - Bagua Orthodox, Yin Bagua and Yang Bagua), 2 person Bagua pushhands routine, free style pushhands, different bagua specfic conditioning exercises, applications, equipment training like heavy bag stuff etc... - then the classes geared towards fighting will include more non-cooperative drills and sparring.

If you visit a class a good indication of whether it's geared towards practice as a martial art is if they do sparring during class, applications etc... and have a look around to see if they have things like equipment for sparring, mats for throwing etc...

When I came to the U.S. my teachers told me I should go visit him and learn something, so I don't think they would have said that if he wasn't very good - I just haven't had the chance to go to Dallas yet. General Sun's bagua is a very complete system of Bagua, if you can find a good teacher.

Good luck and I'd love to hear about your experiences of the class if you end up going.

Craig

[ParryPerson]

Thanks for the reply! I'll be sitting in on a class this thursday, and if everything looks good, signing up on the spot.

[mixjourneyman]

It sounds like a great opportunity.
Fu style bagua is so interesting and intricate.
Good luck in your bagua journey!

[TaoBoxer]

I have met people whom I trust who have spoken highly of him. I believe he also organizes the big CMA tournament in Dallas every year.

Lewitt

[Buddy]

Only heard of him but I did get a chance to meet Gen. Sun at Bow Sim Mark's school many years ago. Scary guy. Nice but scary.

[roger hao]

I am in Dallas now and the only thing that keeps me from Johnny Lees' school
is that it is White Leopard school. No Bagua. I have his tape on Pa Kua Dragon and he is a cool guy.

All- Parry is talking about studying with his student - not him. No negative intended
just sayin'

Fubo - Disciples under Gen Sun? What are you saying? Did General Sun establish a school?
I am not ridiculing - I am seriously asking what took place after General Sun staying
with the Fu family?

[ParryPerson]

I am in Dallas now and the only thing that keeps me from Johnny Lees' school
is that it is White Leopard school. No Bagua. I have his tape on Pa Kua Dragon and he is a cool guy.

All- Parry is talking about studying with his student - not him. No negative intended
just sayin'

Fubo - Disciples under Gen Sun? What are you saying? Did General Sun establish a school?
I am not ridiculing - I am seriously asking what took place after General Sun staying
with the Fu family?

You seem to be pretty mixed up buddy.

http://www.leeswhiteleopardkungfu.com/c ... edule.html

Shows a Pa Kua class every sat morning.

I know you meant no negative, but I think it speaks something if on the "Retreats" they do Johnny Lee has Glenn Guerin do the pa kua (I believe it's the only one he doesn't handle himself). As far as General Sun I'm not sure about a school, but he did teach quite a few people in the Fu linage now including Li Xiao Quan, Liang Quang Ya, and Liao Guo Cun as well as Lee Kwong Ming (Johnny Lee).

[Fubo]

I am in Dallas now and the only thing that keeps me from Johnny Lees' school
is that it is White Leopard school. No Bagua. I have his tape on Pa Kua Dragon and he is a cool guy.

All- Parry is talking about studying with his student - not him. No negative intended
just sayin'

Fubo - Disciples under Gen Sun? What are you saying? Did General Sun establish a school?
I am not ridiculing - I am seriously asking what took place after General Sun staying
with the Fu family?

Yes, disciples. One of my teachers trained with him in the housing estate where they both lived in Fan Ling (Hong Kong). My other teacher would also go there and I believe Sun taught some classes at the HK Chin Wu school (as did many people) - maybe he taught some other places too, I don't know, but this is just physical location. He had lots of students and taught them together, so I guess that would count as "establishing a school" - as for having his own 4 walls and calling it General Sun's Goon, I don't know.

You don't have to establish a school to take disciples - My Yang style teacher was Yang Shou Jongs disciple and he never had a school perse - he taught a hand full of his students that he taught on his roof.

[meeks]

there's some Fu style bagua here in Vancouver but it's absolute fluff. It's the grandson of some Fu guy (can't remember his name) and it's purely offensive to have to watch. I'm in no way implying that's the same stuff you're enquiring about, I'm "just saying" in case some guys hear you do 'Fu style' and think of the local Vancouver club

[ParryPerson]

there's some Fu style bagua here in Vancouver but it's absolute fluff. It's the grandson of some Fu guy (can't remember his name) and it's purely offensive to have to watch. I'm in no way implying that's the same stuff you're enquiring about, I'm "just saying" in case some guys hear you do 'Fu style' and think of the local Vancouver club

I hate that, I'll just call it dragon form pa kua or something. Or call it Fu Zhen Song style. It's a shame it's so hard to find a place to teach you that will be true to the art, I hope I lucked out, the linage and creds are 100% great, I'll update this thread thursday night after I watch a class.

[Fubo]

Fu style is very popular in Hong Kong and Guang Zhou, and has many practitioners and teachers. I've seen some amazing people in Hong Kong, and I've seen some pretty bad representations of Fu style also. Just like any other style you're going to get the good and the not so good.

[roger hao]

Parry-
Mixed up about what? The fact that you went to the White Leopard site
and see a Sat 1 hour BaGua class there? I have Johnny Lee's tapes have viewed and reviewed
them. I have spoken with him more than once - tried to get him out to Boston for a Dragon Palm
seminar. He is a good guy. His school is a Kung Fu school majoring in White Leopard Kung Fu. That is what keeps
me away - BTDT. I never mentioned Glenn in my reply and as far as I know he may have received
100% transmission of Fu Style BaGua. So you must be mixed up - oh something else - I am not your buddy.

Fubo-
You are reading correctly into what I was thinking about disciples and I still think you are gilding the lilly
on that one. At the same time I am intensely interested in the General Sun lineage and I would like to hear anything
you have on it. I have never met any of those Hong Kong Fu people but would really like to if I could. Now that I am here in Dallas
I have just realized that I need to go visit Johnny Lee. if I could stop working 16 hour days.

Meeks-
The guy who's name you can't remember is Fu himself and Victor Fu -his grandson does the same Fu style
that the Gen. Sun guys do so your comment stands against Fu Style overall. Johnny Lee and Victor Fu do the same Dragon Palm
form and the difference is only slight and it is stylistic. I don't know what you saw for a class -sounds unfortunate -was it recent?
There is youtube stuff of Victor and he is representing OK so I don't know exactly what you're seeing - I suggest checking his Vids.

[ParryPerson]

Parry-
Mixed up about what? The fact that you went to the White Leopard site
and see a Sat 1 hour BaGua class there? I have Johnny Lee's tapes have viewed and reviewed
them. I have spoken with him more than once - tried to get him out to Boston for a Dragon Palm
seminar. He is a good guy. His school is a Kung Fu school majoring in White Leopard Kung Fu. That is what keeps
me away - BTDT. I never mentioned Glenn in my reply and as far as I know he may have received
100% transmission of Fu Style BaGua. So you must be mixed up - oh something else - I am not your buddy.

His Kung Fu school is named "White Leopard". He does not teach "White Leopard" Kung Fu. It is My Jhong Law Horn Kung Fu, also, Wu style Tai Chi and Fu Bagua. No need to get defensive, buddy

[roger hao]

Parry-
The fact that Johnny Lee doesn't teach the BaGua retreats is exactly what I am saying
about the school in Dallas. I am saying that I do not think that White Leopard Dallas is a BaGua school.