Uechi Ryu karate internal?

[klonk]

I think old karate guys tend toward the soft side and total body motion, and look like IMA, because the rigid abrupt stuff hurts too much!

I gotta say, though, that there is a whole bunch of stuff in the karate kata that is efficient and very dangerous to the opponent, and anyone who disses it as "rudimentary shaolin suitable for children" has not examined its finer points.

[Sprint]

Hello Sprint, I have a question for you, you said in your post above that:

"People should know that this type of conditioning will leave you crippled when you get older, meaning 50's - 60's. So what good is it knowing that in your youth you were a great fighter but in old age you can't fight your way out of a wet paper bag?"

I can tell by the tone of your post you must know everthing about Karate conditioning, but when I looked at Uechi Karate on Youtube I found a whole lot of old masters that looked like they were agile and in great shape, this guy for example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdVd4sYcXOE

Do you think it is some kind of trick photography? Please help us understand.

I obviously don't know everything about karate conditioning. I spent 20 odd years learning a combination of Goju and Shito ryu style though, so I feel I have some qualification to comment. One thing I can say is, that in my experience, arthritis is very common amongst older karateka, and in weird places too like the neck and spine, not just the hands or arms.

Maybe I overstated the case for bodily harm, so I will rephrase it and say that you are asking for trouble if you train in this way.

There are always exceptional individuals who do not seem to be ever troubled by injuries, but they are rare.

[Elliot]

Thanks for the reply Sprint.

[Black_Tortoise]

I studied Goju, which is a cousin of Uechi (actually, I'm hoping to start back up as soon as I get back to Guelph), I would practice each technique with whole body force and dan tien compression on the strikes. My teacher was totally like "its good that you can do that, we have this too, but not usually till later". So my opinion is that karate starts out very rigid and hard and then moves to a more coordinated and softer approach. I wouldn't apply the word internal though, since it is a Chinese specific word in martial arts culture.
Also, I read somewhere that Chojun Myagi may have had some experience in xingyi and taiji.

I've heard that "oh yeah, we have this in our system too" excuse many times coming from people who don't want to lose face by admitting that certain elements are missing in the styles they practice.

I practice Fukien White Crane and based on what I have learned and observed from various masters from different Crane lineages in Taiwan, the Okinawan Karate guys only got the basic "hard" forms of the systems from the Chinese and were never let in on the higher level "soft" training and application. In our system, for example, we start out learning a hard form similar to Sanchin that builds tendon strength and structure. As students progress, the subsequent forms taught become softer and more flowing. When my 90-year-old teacher demonstrates and applies techniques, he's just as soft as the best Taiji guys I have experienced with emphasis on sticking, adhereing, neutralizing, and issuing power. The differences is that when you push with him you have to worry about getting finger jabbed in the eyes and throat.

There are exceptions, though, of Karate pracitioners who are much better than the rest. Check this guy out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmExIWEglSo

I would say CJ may be on to something. Although Goju- Ryu and Uechi(aka Shohei-ryu and modern Pangai-noon(got to love politics)) have some similarities to Fujian White Crane. I am not so sure that either of the two Okinawan systems actually learned any advanced Chinese System techniques. The original System Uechi-ryu system had three forms and although I can not speak for what and or how it was taught when it first originated in Japan but in later years and even more so today it is not taught like traditional Chinese Martial Arts. Although I would say some of there breathing techniques are reminiscent of some internal qi-gong,I would say the style ultimately is hard(from what I have seen and know of the style).

[Andy_S]

The clip posted by CJ Wang is the best example of applied karate I can recall seeing - very different to the usual long range kick - punch- footsweep we see. Lots of circularity, flow and close-in shots to varied targets. Thanks for posting. I can't speak for his training methods or shenfa, but in terms of actual fighting techniques and tactics, he is very representative of IMA (as I understand them).