Book 'Wu Style Fast Set' by MYL now in English

[GrahamB]

Thank you very much for the additional information Yuen-Ming. Very enlightening. Should set some people around here rethinking about the authority of some of the claims that have been made here.

QFT

[GrahamB]

Well, I consider myself a real man. But I don't feel that there is anything I've said or done to you, I'ld need to apologize for

I guess you're just too sensitive for me to try to talk to.

Because when I respond to you, you take it personally. I encouraged you to take your research to China and you took that as an insult.

I really don't know what they in Germany. Why don't you tell us?

As far as the apology you know what I'm talking about. But it's not really for me I'm fine, it was more a chance for you to redeem yourself.

Anyway, I'll PM you.

I see nothing on this thread that CD would need to 'redeem' himself from. You on the other hand... well, that German-bashing was a bit unpleasant and unnecessary.

[CaliG]

What we can talk about how evil America is but we can't bring up facts about a past war?

Europe's a funny place.

[GrahamB]

Maybe you could stop trying to de-rail this thread now please? Your tactics are clear.

Edit: I'm not going to respond to your repeated attempts to de-rail this thread. You want to have a go at me - do it on PM or to my face.

[CaliG]

Get serious mate.

You Brits have no problem attacking and making fun of Americans, yet if we bring up a war from the past, which someone else brought up then what we can't mentioned the events of that war because someone is German?

What you can't handle free speech?

Why don't you do to China and see the pictures of all those killed in the invasion of Hong Kong and tell those people that everyone knew the Japanese were coming?

To me that's much more insulting than bringing up a war posters on here had nothing to do with.

[Martin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1k7U-_tJVmw&feature=related

[cdobe]

I guess you're just too sensitive for me to try to talk to.

Because when I respond to you, you take it personally. I encouraged you to take your research to China and you took that as an insult.

I do not take every response from you personally. Only the ones in which you're trying to provoke or disparage me.

You Brits have no problem attacking and making fun of Americans, yet if we bring up a war from the past, which someone else brought up then what we can't mentioned the events of that war because someone is German?

I don't feel insulted, because you mention a historic event. I just felt that you were trying to provoke me again. That's quite obvious.

I also don't understand this bit:

Why don't you do to China and see the pictures of all those killed in the invasion of Hong Kong and tell those people that everyone knew the Japanese were coming?

To me that's much more insulting than bringing up a war posters on here had nothing to do with.

Guangzhou was already occupied by the Japanese and the British officials felt threatened and expected an attack. How is that an insult to the victims of the battle ?

[Dai Zhi Qiang]

I think this thread has had its run.

Best to move on as I don't believe everyone is going to come to a mutual agreement about anything presented so far. I believe there has been some interesting information shared, but a lot of round and round the mulberry bush.

I think people will agree that you cannot claim any theory as an established fact, that is a little narrow minded. There are to many people involved (each with a piece of the puzzle), time and geography is involved as well. Since no one was there during the time all this stuff happened, all we have left are fragments from peoples memories.

JB.

[Doc Stier]

I think this thread has had its run.

Best to move on as I don't believe everyone is going to come to a mutual agreement about anything presented so far. I believe there has been some interesting information shared, but a lot of round and round the mulberry bush.

I think people will agree that you cannot claim any theory as an established fact, that is a little narrow minded. There are to many people involved (each with a piece of the puzzle), time and geography is involved as well. Since no one was there during the time all this stuff happened, all we have left are fragments from peoples memories.

I totally agree!

[stephen yan]

The problem with Ma Yueliang's claims [...]

I think that drawing Mr. Yan's claims back on the late Master Ma' shoulders is not fair so I'd like to give some background that most friends in the west might have missed.

When Mr. Yan started to publish his "Wu family history" on some chinese magazines a few years ago he basically disclosed all *family affairs* in public and disparaged most and every other master in order to raise his own.
His first articles raised the eyebrows and more of a lot of people in China, some of which demanded his public apologies. Not happy enough, he raided with friends the houses of those who publicly reprimanded him - some of those in their seventies - in an attempt to "test their skills".

The Ma group in Shanghai immediately took the distance from Mr. Yan explaining that he was not a disciple of Master Ma but that he studied with his (now ex) wife Shi Meilin, an adopted daughter of Ma, who also migrated to New Zeland.

Later Mr. Yan re-published his "Wu family history" in book form, adding material copied verbatim from various magazines in China. So much so that he copied even the typographical mistakes from a number of articles and, needless to say, without ever quoting any source.

Now it seems he is ready to publish a new book, this time in english ...

YM

YM, i don't know which style of taichi you come from ,or if your line's some master was defeated by me , but what your saying is clearly a lie ,which i saw quite few times in defferent places .

i remembered seeing above lies years ago , and at that time ,i called shanghai ma jiang lin , he said they never said that .
as to those people wanted chanllenge me , if i don't go , then they would say that " even old guy's chanllenging , i didn't dare to take ...(none of them were over 70 years old , this was another lie to make up the stories that i took advantage of old taiji masters , the fact was a lots of i came cross hands with were all ages)" so i went to look for them, and those guys thought that i was in nz , so they made some claims to chanllenge me without expecting me being in china ,one of the guys was in beijing , i don't know where he live and just happened one of my beijing Tong bei quan friend knows where the guy lived , so he took me there , it was not only for me to take his chanllenge , but also to check out his claiming :" even master ma couldn't move him and he had lots of chances that he could push ma out ,but he didn't as ma was old..".... of course some chinese magzine didn't like someone from overseas won their inland masters , so they , maybe including above YM started to telling lies about" i took some hooligans to beat over 70 years old guy"... how dirty the lie was , i wrote a letter to the magzine and posted on chinese forum as well ( i will try to find it out and post it here).

when i first learn from master ma y l in 1981, it was ma's first time teaching fast form publickly in shanghai wanti guan万体馆, that was 3-4 years before i even knew shi meilin .yes , master ma made me interested in taiji as prior to that i always thought taiji was only for health and for elderly people ,and because the times spend with master ma was limited by then , so i learned some forms from shi meilin ,but she was also conservative to me , so i had to learn from master ma and wu ying hua for some forms and nei gong that she didn't want to share with me , there was also another reason that made me go to ma and wu direct was that the way we approach taiji was very defferent , she likes the performance of the form , and i like to know why we do the movements and their applications which i could only get answers from ma and wu ,and i want to know how to defeat people's attack and chanllenges from all styles of martial arts like master ma did( some of the teachers push hands only with their students , and students are not allowed to attack hard back or resist by not following the teachers leading, soon the students do it , they would be blaimed to be "not respecting the teacher", thus way ,the push hands never be that real , and the teacher would also produce a wrong impression about their skills ,but when they meet real chanllenge , they don't know how to defence themself. i realised this one by seeing ma's very best student zhang jin gui pushing hands with Patric Kelly in shanghai , as when i practised PH with zhang j g ,i always let him push me and throw me ,i did'nt even think that i could stop him push me out , he always thought that was much better too as he followed ma for around 50 years, but Patrick was not his junior ,wouldn't let him push the way zhang wanted , i was surprised to see ,zhang j g couldn't push him out at all , of course , zhang was in his 70's ,and half the weight of patrick, but as the taiji sutra says 4 onces can re direct one thousand kg , why zhang couldn't ? in early years i didn't let meilin push me ,but by then i thought she was a lady ,so i didn''t think too much, but by seeing zhang and patrick's PH ,AND RECLLED once my another martial arts brother of master ji gin shan's line ,whom told me that he chanllenged master ma's another top student CHAN zhao qun , chan also didn't throw him out or push him out like chan did onhis own students . so one day when i pushed with zhang j g again ,i didn't let him push , and he couldn't move me at all , his face turn white , late on lots of jelouse to me from shanghai wu practioners which not only the push hand but also none of them learned whole system and understand the applications .with this doubt in my heart , i needed get cleared that wether taiji only works when the opponant follow your push ,or otherwise it won't work? so i put this questions to master ma and told him the cases that chan z q and zhang j g "among master ma's all students \ disciples and children , pei zhu ying , chan z q , and zhang j g were recognised as best in PH, but pei died a little earlier ,and i didn't see or hear other people chanllenged him", master ma's answer was that they missed one part of PH training which should PH with defferent styles or other martial arts practioners rather than PH with their own students. master ma said to me that the reason he could manage defferent chanllenges and attacks was because that after wu jian quan passed away , he tooked over the PH classes in shanghai wu school , by that time of china , amny martial arts people wanted to find out that taiji P H WAS REAL OR NOT ,so almost everyday in his class ,some chanllengers would come to attack him from all background of martial arts , so he trained himself out to handle allthose attacks , after saying this , ma stood up , asked me to try my best to PH with him,like i did against zhan j g ect, i had the experience of attack him by sudden in nz , so i didn't attack him but tried to do like i did with zhang j g , and i was still fly out like usually ,couldn't do anything, in the end ma smiled to me and said " do you still have doubts about tai ji sutras? , i said :no.
master ma then advised me that when i returned to nz , i should not only PH with my students and ask them to try hard , but also PH with other styles of taiji masters ,and other martial arts masters and none martial artists but body builders ...wrestlers qing nan masters ect, and to think why won why loss wether wined by strenth or by principles of taiji.... those advises benefited me greatly )

especially after ma and wu bieng in nz, i went back many times to shanghai to learn from the two great masters, we had disciple ceremony in nz , and i would let someone help to post a picture of a letter from ma and you would see why i say Y M has bein lying. i know lots of people even in wu style felt left out by not having the chances to learn and master the whole wu style system even though they followed ma for much longer than me , they couldn't face the fact i learned whole system plus 24 ying yang neigong which lost in mainland china, those things happened lots in CMA, but i don't care , i only respect truth and true skills and all facts, and try to preserve that way and happy for people to test my skills anytime ,if through this way , i can find someones' skill like master mas' or close to his' , then what a lucky thing for taiji world !

[Yuen-Ming]

YM, i don't know which style of taichi you come from ,or if your line's some master was defeated by me

ROTFL

YM

[Yuen-Ming]

[...] none of them were over 70 years old , this was another lie to make up the stories that i took advantage of old taiji masters [...]

Oh and by the way, Yu Zhijun - to whom I hold no relationship whatsoever - was 71 when you went to "visit" him in Beijing in 2001

YM

[stephen yan]

Y M WROTE :
Later Mr. Yan re-published his "Wu family history" in book form, adding material copied verbatim from various magazines in China. So much so that he copied even the typographical mistakes from a number of articles and, needless to say, without ever quoting any source.

Why you so bitter about it ? it was my fisrt book , of cause lots of information about other styles of taiji was from the magazines i read over the years , i didn't have lots of experience by then(1989) , but at least it was the starting point for me for desciding to do research into other styles of taiji and it's history by meself.

[Yuen-Ming]

Why you so bitter about it ? it was my fisrt book , of cause lots of information about other styles of taiji was from the magazines i read over the years , i didn't have lots of experience by then(1989) , but at least it was the starting point for me for desciding to do research into other styles of taiji and it's history by meself.

Just reporting facts which, according to your reply above, are factually correct.

Take it easy: just like now you are saying "I did not have a lot of experience" you are going (hopefully) to think/say the same in a few years of your "thruth" of today.
Realize that and listen more to what people have to say, that's my suggestion.

YM

[Doc Stier]

Doc