Book 'Wu Style Fast Set' by MYL now in English

[stephen yan]

The Chinese dynastic system of strong, middle, and weak phases of government seems to be a constant.
At the start of a Chinese dynasty it is said that the leaders control chaos and bring the country out of turmoil.
The middle phase is said to be when the dynasty plateus.
The final phase is when the dynasty becomes corrupt and crumbles.
I would say that we are seeing the first phase of the Communist dynasty.
The Qing fell apart and of course there was chaos. It took about fifty years to bring it under control.
Now China is becoming a great country again.
Maybe in one hundred years we will see some new dynasty replace the Communists.
That just seems to be the way things go.

The problem is that we tend to turn our objective thinking function off when it comes to Communism.
We have grown up in a world that is frightened of Communism and where Communist governments perpetuated horrible acts against their people. But there is no reason why the current Capitalist-Communist system in China shouldn't work well for its people.

i am not interest in politics as they are dirty ,but the facts that i know are mao destroyed chinese traditional value and chinese humanity , the communist govt has been so evil to destory china natural resources ,enviroment, most of all , chinese triditional martial arts are almost destroyed to it's last bit after several thousands of years surviving, which no other govt.s had been able to do in whole chinese history , so i wanted to do my best to save as much as i can , take them out of china to avoid final loss. once the condition changed in china , i will do my best to take them back.

[D_Glenn]

Chen Yen-Lin, who wrote under the pen name 'Chen Kung', claimed to have studied under Yang Chengfu but was actually a short-time student of Tian Zhaolin. All the material in Chen's book came from dinner conversations with Tian but he wasn't credited when it was published in 1942.

Chen Kung's book “Taiji Boxing, Saber, Sword, Spear, and Push-Hands”, was translated by Stuart Alve Olson in 5 volumes. "Cultivating the Ch'I: The Secrets of Energy and Vitality (Chen Kung, Vol 1)", "The Intrinsic Energies of T'Ai Chi Ch'Uan (Chen Kung Series, Vol 2)", "Tai Chi Sword, Sabre & Staff (Yearning K. Chen Series, V. 5)", and "Tai Chi: Sensing Hands (Chen Kung's T'Ai Chi Series)".

-fwiw

[edededed]

Communism is just a keyword - the only true Communists are probably like the Bushmen. (True Democracies are probably more like ancient Athens.)

China has always had a tendency for earth-shaking revolutions (burn all the books! Trash all the temples!)... But they they go and change their mind again later...

[taiwandeutscher]

Hmm - I don't think the classical acupuncture meridian channels were rerouted/renumbered... The various different methods out there were unified to an extent, though.

I also don't think the Communist government tried to put a Communist slant to CMA history - probably the inaccuracies that may be there are more due to general academic sloppiness, etc.

No, no, no!

Of course, the modern Chinese Medicine has been influenced by so called dialectical thinking (though many Chinese don't know what that means exactly), in order to get approval from Western Medicine (modern science). I have been involved in several high ranking academic symposia with mainland Chinese reps, who really tried hard to push such an agenda, making an open end system of thinking into a stringent logical one, ha ha.

Same thing happend with CMA, watching the history making with the Chen village in it's centre, from nowhere to the top, really funny. And the mixing of traditional stuff with modern, as mentioned by Doc Stier, is omnipresent at any public meating of teachers and masters, sadly.

Modern Chinese writing is of the same problematic kind, having several old characters represtended by one new character. I like the traditional characters and classical writings, and I'm suspicious on any modern compilations on classical contents (what I read).

That does not exclude the possibility to find older stuff, totally. So it would really be interesting, what sources Dr. Yan is holding in his hands. So many forgeries have been proven do be without much value, but there might be original stuff burried somewhere. I'm sure, lot of archeological stuff will be found for a very long time to come, but all has to be doubble checked.

[stephen yan]

张 三 峯 先 师 世 传 拳 谱


张三峯―王宗岳－陈州同－张松溪－叶近泉－单思南－王征南－黄百家－甘凤池（后失传闻）。


张三峯―王宗岳－蒋 发－陈长兴－杨禄禅、李伯魁、及陈姓子侄辈。

杨 氏 传 拳 谱

杨禄禅－杨凤候、杨班候、杨建候、及外姓数人。


杨凤候－传子杨北林。


杨班候－传侄杨梦祥（字少候）、万 春、吴公甫、凌 山。


杨建候（杨家中架）－杨梦祥、杨澄甫、及外姓数人。


杨梦祥（杨家小架）－田兆麟、尤志学、东润芳、马润之、乌拉布（吴图南）。


杨澄甫（杨家大架）－杨兆鹏、田兆麟、武汇川、董英杰、褚桂亭、陈微明、王旭东、阎月川、牛镜轩、田作林、徐岱山、刘论山、

李得芳、李春年、杨凤歧、张钦霖、郑佐平、王其和、崔立志、王镜清、杨振声、杨振铭、杨振基、姜廷选、

陈光恺、张庆麟、王保还、形玉程、刘尽臣、匡克明、杨鸿志、于化行、濮 玉、滕南璇、奚诚甫、朱纫芝、

郭阴棠、李万程、张种交。

田兆麟－内姓： 田 宏、田颖嘉、田颖锐。


－外姓： 林镜平、杨开儒、何士镖、张景祺、钱西樵、周学渊、蔡琅亭、陈一虎、陈志远、周学芬、施承志、张 强、

张宝凤、陈志进、何瑞明、崇寿永、郑佐平、沈尔乔、叶大密、何创夏、董伯承、金明渊、金达中、周子沐、

王成杰， 等等。


田颖嘉－内姓： 田秉渊、田 筠。


－外姓： 姚国钦、袁勇荣、杨庆华、翁季纯、朱秋芳、徐建刚、黄小伟、姚国平，等等。



上表以早传为准（或以拜帖为准），后传不祥，如有遗漏，敬请谅解。


above yang style taiji family tree from TIAN ZHAOLIN taiji site is very interesting and preciouse, some mistakes about nei jaquan and zhang shanfong , but still a solid imformation.among yang c f's early disciples,董英杰heard of yang l c and yang b h's fast form, but he didn't have a chance to learn it , so he created his own, and never dared to claim his fast form was yang l c's one; 郑漫青‘'s top diciple 黄性贤combined white crane to created "fast form,but also never dared to claim his fast form was yang l c's one. 李得芳created tai ji long fist.
i think the reason that FU zhong wen's name was not listed , was because he was a late student of Yang c f.

TIAN ZHAO LIN was taught by YANG JIANHOU \YANG s h and YANG C F, and clearly said yang cf's form was the enlargment version of his father yang j h's middle fram form. Clearly , Tian z l was told by yang family that yang l c and yang b h's fast form was founded by great TAOIST zhang shan fong. which was same as wu family was told, and it would be impossible for yang l c to tell his children and disciples that zhang s f was the founder if the fast form was founded by chen family member.
apparently yang family said same thing about whom was the founder for several generations ,like in wu family.

[stephen yan]

[b]Klonk wrote:
I think you are quite right. When you look at the spread in world popularity of taiji, a lot of what people are doing is influenced by YCF, whether you are talking about CMC, Beijing 24, or a lot of other stuff. And of course that all had its genesis in his sucessful teaching career. It is technically incorrect to say YCF is the founder or inventor of this gongfu, but as its popularizer, he is beyond compare. It is equally correct to say Kano Jigoro did not invent jujitsu, but so far as spreading it, well...[/b]
the concept of "founder " of a style here is confusing. say if a family has been practising Xiao HONG quan for 3 generations , can we say xiao hong quan was founded by this family's 1st generation? since xiao hong quan started several hundred years ago. of course we can't! the 1st generation learned from someone else,and was the one brought the art to the family ,can not be called the founder of the art in the family. same thing like in wang bao village that wang family 8th generation wang zhong jing was taught 13 posture soft hand and liu he spear by taoist Dong bing quan ,now the liuhe spear was passed down already 14th \15th generations( they lost 13 posture soft hand ,but their quan pu recorded it), and in late qing , chen tong of chen village even went to wang bao to learn the spear.but wang family never call their 8th generation ancestor wang zhon jing was the founder of liuhe spear, he was only called 1st generation of the spear in wang family.

therefor since the fast form ( 13 posture soft hand ) was not created by yang l c and yang b h , how can yang l c be called "founder"?! he can only be called 1st generation of practising taiji( fast form) in yang family. his 3rd son yang j h created middle fram form,but as it was not taught publicly and only few people learned it ,and his young son yang c f's creation was taught publicly and widely spread amost 99.9% people does yang taichi was from the version that yang cf created , so he was called the founder ,which was called that way before 1949. after 1949 ,because li tian ji and fu zhong wen were communist party members and holds key positions of national taichi managment center , so they simplified yang c f's form ,make 24 or 44 or 88 ect defferent versions of yang simplfied forms to promote ,so made huge number of yang practitioners, no.1 of all style of taichi ,but lost taichi true spirit ...

[stephen yan]

张 三 峯 先 师 世 传 拳 谱


张三峯―王宗岳－陈州同－张松溪－叶近泉－单思南－王征南－黄百家－甘凤池（后失传闻）。


张三峯―王宗岳－蒋 发－陈长兴－杨禄禅、李伯魁、及陈姓子侄辈。

杨 氏 传 拳 谱

杨禄禅－杨凤候、杨班候、杨建候、及外姓数人。


杨凤候－传子杨北林。


杨班候－传侄杨梦祥（字少候）、万 春、吴公甫、凌 山。


杨建候（杨家中架）－杨梦祥、杨澄甫、及外姓数人。


杨梦祥（杨家小架）－田兆麟、尤志学、东润芳、马润之、乌拉布（吴图南）。


杨澄甫（杨家大架）－杨兆鹏、田兆麟、武汇川、董英杰、褚桂亭、陈微明、王旭东、阎月川、牛镜轩、田作林、徐岱山、刘论山、

李得芳、李春年、杨凤歧、张钦霖、郑佐平、王其和、崔立志、王镜清、杨振声、杨振铭、杨振基、姜廷选、

陈光恺、张庆麟、王保还、形玉程、刘尽臣、匡克明、杨鸿志、于化行、濮 玉、滕南璇、奚诚甫、朱纫芝、

郭阴棠、李万程、张种交。

田兆麟－内姓： 田 宏、田颖嘉、田颖锐。


－外姓： 林镜平、杨开儒、何士镖、张景祺、钱西樵、周学渊、蔡琅亭、陈一虎、陈志远、周学芬、施承志、张 强、

张宝凤、陈志进、何瑞明、崇寿永、郑佐平、沈尔乔、叶大密、何创夏、董伯承、金明渊、金达中、周子沐、

王成杰， 等等。


田颖嘉－内姓： 田秉渊、田 筠。


－外姓： 姚国钦、袁勇荣、杨庆华、翁季纯、朱秋芳、徐建刚、黄小伟、姚国平，等等。



上表以早传为准（或以拜帖为准），后传不祥，如有遗漏，敬请谅解。


above yang style taiji family tree from TIAN ZHAOLIN taiji site is very interesting and preciouse, some mistakes about nei jaquan and zhang shanfong , but still a solid imformation.among yang c f's early disciples,董英杰heard of yang l c and yang b h's fast form, but he didn't have a chance to learn it , so he created his own, and never dared to claim his fast form was yang l c's one; 郑漫青‘'s top diciple 黄性贤combined white crane to created "fast form,but also never dared to claim his fast form was yang l c's one. 李得芳created tai ji long fist.
i think the reason that FU zhong wen's name was not listed , was because he was a late student of Yang c f.

TIAN ZHAO LIN was taught by YANG JIANHOU \YANG s h and YANG C F, and clearly said yang cf's form was the enlargment version of his father yang j h's middle fram form. Clearly , Tian z l was told by yang family that yang l c and yang b h's fast form was founded by great TAOIST zhang shan fong. which was same as wu family was told, and it would be impossible for yang l c to tell his children and disciples that zhang s f was the founder if the fast form was founded by chen family member.
apparently yang family said same thing about whom was the founder for several generations ,like in wu family.

above 李得芳created tai ji long fist which was also called 108 tai ji ,郑漫青also created cheng style taiji ,董英杰created Dong fast taiji form , so from yang c f to his disciples ,already had three new styles. wu syle from wu jian quan to his disciples ,no body created any new styles ,wu style seemed much mor concervative.

wu jian quan's father quan you was an imperial army officer ,when he started to learn from yang l c , there were many other people , but only he and wan shan , lin chun staied on , the rest all give up or no longer practise hard .but by then yang c f was still concervative , one day the BEILE贝勒pushed hand with quan you, wan shan , lin chun , he won them all , BEILE then said to yang c f that if those 3 persons even can't win him , how could they protect him?! from then on yang l c started to teach them wholeheartdly. when one day yang l c realised those three students level improved dramaticaly , he started to worry his son yang ban hou's authority in the future , so he ordered quan you, wan shan , lin chun to be yang ban hou's diciples , even though yang b h was younger than them. after sometime one day , BEILE was in high spirit ,and wanted to see how much better that yang b h's skill than those 3 ban hou's diciples , he ordered quan you, wan shan , lin chun not allowed to intentionly to be defeated and do their best to show their achivement .... when yang ban hou started to push hands with wu quan you ,all bang hou's attack was neutrilised and he couldn't move quan you at all , bang hou got very upset, suddenly grab a dao --broad sword and walking towards his father yang l c while yealing:why you gave out the true skill to none yang family people? he was stoped by people.... before yang l c passed away , all disciples were kneeling infront of his bed , yang l c asked yang ban hou to go to his bed and asked ban hou to put his ear very close to lc 's mouth ,said few words which no one else could hear ,suddently ban hou acted very excited jumped around and spoke loudly to claim that he got" last secreat "....... it was clearly an arrangement to raise the position of ban hou after yang l c 's death.

a guy with pen name "pin jiang bu xiao shen" recorded in details in his book "xia yi yinxong zhuan" in 1920's.

[stephen yan]

[
a guy with pen name "pin jiang bu xiao shen" recorded in details in his book "xia yi yinxong zhuan" in 1920's.

Was this a martial arts novel or a historical book? I wonder if Pin Jiang Bu Xiao Shen had any sources for his report other than oral tales recounted 50 years after Yang Luchan's death.

Pin Jiang Bu Xiao Shen at early days learned tai chi from xu yu sheng(许禹生）. i read his book in early 1980's , in 1991 when master ma yue liang and wu ying hua lived with me for six monthes in NZ, they told me lots of old things that they heard from wu jian quan ,as the couple lived with wu jian quan in a same house for many years till wu jianquan died.one of the things they told me was similar to Pin Jiang Bu Xiao Shen's saying above. i remembered that master ma also said that 马润芝ma run zhi told him the same thing too. ma run zhi was a extrordinary man高人，somehow above tian yin jar listed him as yang shao hou's student , but i clearly remembered that master ma told me ,hat" ma runzhi taught yang c f the straight sword ,which ma runzhi learned from yang family, but didn't quite complete, it was wu 3rd sword set LIAN KUNJIAN," BY COMPAREING yang sword"s names with wu 3rd sword' names , i found there about 16 names short in yang's one,which seemed that ma's saying was right.
another interesting thing was not only master ma learned 数术(a kind of predicting methods) from ma run zhi, but wu jianquan also learned "fang tian hua ji方天画戟“from ma run zhi as well , as fang tian hua ji方天画戟 was not from taichi, so it didn't pass down in wu family. the interesting thing is ma run zhi was yang s h"s student , but he sent his son 马 普 安ma pu an to learn tai ji from wu jian quan.

there another yang l c's student reached top level whose name was wang lain ting, when yang ban hou couldn't win wang , he got upset , when on the way taking yang l c's cuffun back to yang's home town yongnian , ban hou used ban lan chui to attack wang , tried to damaged wang so that wang can not practise taiji anymore , but wang avoided and critisied ban hou too crue and too narrow ,and left and swear he wouldn't practise yang's taiji anymore. but late he was advised by li binfu and li rui dong ,and they formed taiji wu xin chui , now li ruidong's lineage still practised it.

[stephen yan]

[b]Fu family skill


To: stephen yan

you agree that fu shengyuan has low skill in push hands, right? my taiji teacher learned from fu zhongwen and then ma yue liang and his wife. he said there is basically no comparison and that ma yueliang's skill was well beyond fu zhongwen. interesting that he says that though because he teaches the yang long form and hasn't taught the wu in several years.[/b]

someone asked me about fu family skill , yes i met fu zhong wen and fu sheng yuan , if someone wanted the comparison , there is no comparison with ma's skill , not only fu sheng yuan but fu zhong wen as well .i warned fu sheng yuan once that he should be careful as if someone don't take his trick and straight way push him or strike him , he(fu) will give a bad name to taichi , and i suggested he should change the titles in his card that instead call himself "great grant mas ter " ,he should just call himself as "a taichi practioner", is much more accurate for him, and it will do less damage to taiji if he is throwed out .

[edededed]

Already posted in the "Images from Dr. Yan" thread (viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1762&start=15), but reposted here:

More Pictures from Dr. Yan:


Posture from 1st Wu sword set Qiankunjian (乾坤劍, Heaven Earth Sword) called "pan geng zhi yan."


Posture from 2nd Wu sword set Qixingjian (七星劍, Seven Star Sword) called baiyuanxianguo (白猿獻果, white ape offers fruit).


Posture from 3rd Wu sword set Lianhuanjian (連環劍, Linking Sword) called tianwangtuota (天王托塔, heavenly king upholds tower).


Posture from Wu double sword set (雙劍) called xiefeishi (斜飛勢, oblique flying posture).


Posture from Wu two-man sword set (對劍), with master Wu Yinghua (吳英華) and Shi Meilin (施梅林).

[Andy_S]

SNIP
i warned fu sheng yuan once that he should be careful as if someone don't take his trick and straight way push him or strike him , he(fu) will give a bad name to taichi , and i suggested he should change the titles in his card that instead call himself "great grant mas ter " ,he should just call himself as "a taichi practioner", is much more accurate for him, and it will do less damage to taiji if he is throwed out .
SNIP

Everyone, admit it: You LOVE Dr Stephen Yan - he is a much-needed breath of straight-talking fresh air in IMA!

Stephen:

What was his reaction to your suggestion?

BTW, for your next book, I strongly suggest you write a on your arguments with and challenges against various Taiji masters. (The Gracies did something similar in the late 1980s, and they recorded much of it on film) This would stir up the Taiji scene - a scene that needs shaking up - more than anything else since...well...the Wu/Chen Macau challenge match, if not since Yang LC arrived in Beijing.

[cdobe]

Pin Jiang Bu Xiao Shen at early days learned tai chi from xu yu sheng(许禹生）. i read his book in early 1980's , in 1991 when master ma yue liang and wu ying hua lived with me for six monthes in NZ, they told me lots of old things that they heard from wu jian quan ,as the couple lived with wu jian quan in a same house for many years till wu jianquan died.

Once again, the evidence that we have shows us that this is most probably a lie. Since you're repeating it over and over again, I have no choice but quoting myself:

This story was invented in order to negate certain lineages altogether. For example the lineage where you've got your 24 neigong from
In August 1937, Japan started to attack Shanghai. In autumn of the same year Shanghai was occupied. It was completely controlled and surrounded by Japanese forces [1]. Historians have called the Shanghai from 1937 to the end of the war a "gu dao" (孤岛) or "solitary island" [1]. Martial Arts were banned by the Japanese in the occupied China [2]. "Within a few years, most of the top martial artists had fled the city." [3]
So, according to you Wu Jianquan travelled, crossing the enemy lines, during the time between 1937 and 1942 ? I ask this question, because Wu appeared on the group photos of the annual member parties of the Hongkong Jianquan Academy during that time. There are several independant lineages from Hongkong, who all tell us about master Wu Jianquan residing in Hongkong between 1937 and the time when Hongkong got under attack by the Japanese forces in late 1941. E.g. Mr. Young Wabu (http://www.classicaltaichi.com/about-us.html), Mr. Tinn Chan Lee [4] on page 9 of this book there are photographs of the original application documents to Wu Jianquan's school in Hongkong. This is also in accordance with the statements of grandmaster Cheng Wing Kwong).

[1] In the Shadow of the Rising Sun. Shanghai under Japanese Occupation. Wen-hsin Yeh. University of California, Berkeley. (2004) p. 67
[2] Taijiquan and the search for the little old Chinese man: Ritualizing race through Martial Arts. Adam Dean Frank, BA, MA. Dissertation. The University of Texas at Austin. (2003) p.58
[3] p.226
[4] The Wu Style of Tai Chi Chuan. Tinn Chan Lee. Burbank (1982) p. 6 and p. 9

[Doc Stier]

Pin Jiang Bu Xiao Shen at early days learned tai chi from xu yu sheng(许禹生）. i read his book in early 1980's , in 1991 when master ma yue liang and wu ying hua lived with me for six monthes in NZ, they told me lots of old things that they heard from wu jian quan ,as the couple lived with wu jian quan in a same house for many years till wu jianquan died.

Once again, the evidence that we have shows us that this is most probably a lie. Since you're repeating it over and over again, I have no choice but quoting myself:

This story was invented in order to negate certain lineages altogether.

I tend to agree with you on this issue, not only because it serves "to negate certain lineages altogether", but because in doing so it specifically serves to validate and promote the Wu Style Tai-Chi Chuan Lineage of Ma Yue-Liang and Wu Ying-Hua as the most authentic TCC lineage, according to Mr. Yan's hypothesis regarding the historical development of all TCC styles from the "13 Soft Hands" form set.

Once again, at the risk of being redundant, I seriously doubt that Mr. Yan would be offering such references if they pointed to another style or system other than his own. And after wading through more than three dozen pages of insistent claims regarding this theory's authenticity, why should it really even matter to anyone else?

Since this supposedly "original" fast form set apparently isn't included in the official curriculum of any other major TCC lineage today, and since "many different styles of tai-ji all have had great masters" nonetheless, as Mr. Yan correctly stated, how does the final analysis of his hypothesis actually impact the skill potential of those who seriously train these other major lineage styles?

Doc

[stephen yan]

Pin Jiang Bu Xiao Shen at early days learned tai chi from xu yu sheng(许禹生）. i read his book in early 1980's , in 1991 when master ma yue liang and wu ying hua lived with me for six monthes in NZ, they told me lots of old things that they heard from wu jian quan ,as the couple lived with wu jian quan in a same house for many years till wu jianquan died.

Once again, the evidence that we have shows us that this is most probably a lie. Since you're repeating it over and over again, I have no choice but quoting myself:

This story was invented in order to negate certain lineages altogether. For example the lineage where you've got your 24 neigong from
In August 1937, Japan started to attack Shanghai. In autumn of the same year Shanghai was occupied. It was completely controlled and surrounded by Japanese forces [1]. Historians have called the Shanghai from 1937 to the end of the war a "gu dao" (孤岛) or "solitary island" [1]. Martial Arts were banned by the Japanese in the occupied China [2]. "Within a few years, most of the top martial artists had fled the city." [3]
So, according to you Wu Jianquan travelled, crossing the enemy lines, during the time between 1937 and 1942 ? I ask this question, because Wu appeared on the group photos of the annual member parties of the Hongkong Jianquan Academy during that time. There are several independant lineages from Hongkong, who all tell us about master Wu Jianquan residing in Hongkong between 1937 and the time when Hongkong got under attack by the Japanese forces in late 1941. E.g. Mr. Young Wabu (http://www.classicaltaichi.com/about-us.html), Mr. Tinn Chan Lee [4] on page 9 of this book there are photographs of the original application documents to Wu Jianquan's school in Hongkong. This is also in accordance with the statements of grandmaster Cheng Wing Kwong).

[1] In the Shadow of the Rising Sun. Shanghai under Japanese Occupation. Wen-hsin Yeh. University of California, Berkeley. (2004) p. 67
[2] Taijiquan and the search for the little old Chinese man: Ritualizing race through Martial Arts. Adam Dean Frank, BA, MA. Dissertation. The University of Texas at Austin. (2003) p.58
[3] p.226
[4] The Wu Style of Tai Chi Chuan. Tinn Chan Lee. Burbank (1982) p. 6 and p. 9

apparently you are the one telling lies throught fast form to wu jian quan's last few years by ignoring the facts i posted . let me first ask you where did wu jian quan died and burried ? if you are in germany , why don't you get 2nd oppinion from ma jiang bao , i was told by master ma y l and wu y h and wu jian quan's another two students master Jiang chang fong andMASTER zhu lian xiang .

[stephen yan]

Pin Jiang Bu Xiao Shen at early days learned tai chi from xu yu sheng(许禹生）. i read his book in early 1980's , in 1991 when master ma yue liang and wu ying hua lived with me for six monthes in NZ, they told me lots of old things that they heard from wu jian quan ,as the couple lived with wu jian quan in a same house for many years till wu jianquan died.

Once again, the evidence that we have shows us that this is most probably a lie. Since you're repeating it over and over again, I have no choice but quoting myself:

This story was invented in order to negate certain lineages altogether.

I tend to agree with you on this issue, not only because it serves "to negate certain lineages altogether", but because in doing so it specifically serves to validate and promote the Wu Style Tai-Chi Chuan Lineage of Ma Yue-Liang and Wu Ying-Hua as the most authentic TCC lineage, according to Mr. Yan's hypothesis regarding the historical development of all TCC styles from the "13 Soft Hands" form set.

Once again, at the risk of being redundant, I seriously doubt that Mr. Yan would be offering such references if they pointed to another style or system other than his own. And after wading through more than three dozen pages of insistent claims regarding this theory's authenticity, why should it really even matter to anyone else?

Since this supposedly "original" fast form set apparently isn't included in the official curriculum of any other major TCC lineage today, and since "many different styles of tai-ji all have had great masters" nonetheless, as Mr. Yan correctly stated, how does the final analysis of his hypothesis actually impact the skill potential of those who seriously train these other major lineage styles?

Doc

well , since you posted on the thread again , it seemed to me that it matters to you