Anjing..

[D_Glenn]

video of these levels please, and not chinese masters, people talking about any level other than first, please show a clip of you manifesting this in your own training, if not then its all b.s, as anyone can claim to understand anything based on writings.

It's not something that can be seen. It's something that is felt by the opponent. What good would video do?


.

[edededed]

"Mingjin" is when you can see the punch (pull hand, push hand).

"Anjin" is when you cannot see the punch (may look like a touch with a fist) - you can still see the effect, though (the opponent will fly back or show pain, etc.).

So, if anyone can do this here, it's not hard to videotape it.

[beegs]

It's not something that can be seen. It's something that is felt by the opponent. What good would video do?

BUT if people cant even maintain liu he which you can see from a vid, then its obvious what stage they would be in etc, so vid is helpful

[wushutiger]

Well I wouldnt agree that Anjing simply makes the opponent go flying. It is a deeper, more concentrated type of power that penetrates better...

The point of the discussion isnt to prove whether or not someone is at a level, but to discuss ideas around this...feeling, experience, understanding, definition etc etc etc.

John Wang, the point isnt to prove if anyne can do it or not. Why is always about this for you? Does development and growth not interest you in anyway? Are you saying that theoretical books on XY have no value in reading and wont help you develop unless the writer puts up a video of him beating someone up?? And how can you even compare this to a Qi Ball discussion?

Point is this, if some of the greatest XY practitioners of all time identified, discussed and wrote about these levels, then surely there must be some truth to it. Surely its not all Qi Balls and magic. Maybe we should think about it in a realistic light, instead of palming it off as some mystical concept, because it really isnt...

Beegs, lih he should be emphasized at all levels. We arent discussing liu he in this thread, and we also arent trying to determine who can or cannot participate in this thread based on their level, but rather, listen t everyones experience, take it, leave it...up to you, but discussion is always good.

[jonathan.bluestein]

I've seen both my teacher and gongfu grandpa (Zhou Jingxuan) use An Jin, and had Zhou laoshi demonstrate it on me from zero distance (he wanted me to feel it so I could learn).

Zhou laoshi was doing a long demonstration of many skills for a local IMA teacher who was interested in a workshop. Zhou talked about the move from Ming to An in Xing Yi. He showed Pi Quan with Ming, and then Pi Quan with An. Amazing difference when he showed it. I was standing some 20cm from his palm when he did the An Jin Pi Quan (with full power I suppose). That shit was scary as hell.

When he demonstrated the zero-distance fa jin, it felt just like how An Jin was described in this thread. I could not feel the strike on the surface of my skin. It felt like a needle has gone through somewhere in the center of his palm, and right into the middle on my chest. Right upon arrival, the force just exploded inside, making me cough and short of breath for a while. It felt like a hollow-point bullet. It was painful, but the pain didn't last long. More than anything, it felt crippling. It felt as if he had done this with full power, he could've easily killed me. It's important to note that the blow didn't come by surprise! Zhou told me when he was going to hit me, and asked me to prepare and harden my chest for impact. He also issued it on my actual muscle, and not at the solar plexus.

[johnwang]

zero distance ...

If we define Mingjing as general distance Fajing method and Anjing as zero distance Fajin method then they are complete different Fajing methods. Since the general distance Fajin method has the advantage of distance, you don't need to accelerate as fast. Since the zero distance Fajin method has no distance, you have to accelerate in much faster speed.

So Mingjing can be like this.



and Anjing can be like this.

[gosao]

If the guy holding the pad isn't overreacting, what would you guys say this one is?

Ming or An?

[Interloper]

Anjing doesn't have to be a rapid pulse; it can also be a "feed" into your opponent. The effect can be used to unbalance him, neutralize his attacking power, and "stuff" him downward into his spine or back over his center to take him down and pin him.

[jonathan.bluestein]

John, I wasn't trying to suggest An is only a "zero distance" jin. It's just the distance Zhou laoshi stroke me from. He wanted me to demonstrate by striking him from zero distance. Since I didn't do that well, he went to show me how it's done :-P

[johnwang]

- Is there zero distance Mingjing?
- Does zero distance Fajin = Anjing?
- Is there such thing as "slow" Fajing?

[Doc Stier]

Damn, John! Those are tough questions, man.

Is there gonna be a pop quiz on all this stuff later?

[johnwang]

I'm not very good at abstract stuff. If people don't use plain English, I truly don't know what they are talking about. I like to use picture or clip for discussion. So far I still haven't seen any clip that shows different "lead into emptiness" other than the one that I have posted.

[jonathan.bluestein]

1. Is there zero distance Mingjing?
- Does zero distance Fajin = Anjing?
- Is there such thing as "slow" Fajing?

1. Maybe. Haven't seen something like that yet, I think.
2. Well, if THERE TRULY ISN'T zero-distance Ming, that'd mean it's gotta be something else other than Ming.
3. Fa Jin is by definition explosive, but I think some movements can be explosive, and still slower than others. You have olympic lifters lifting "explosively", with their explosiveness being much slower than a good pro-boxer's punch. In the field of weight training you can lift heavy weights with the intention (Yi if you will) of being "explosive", but these weights will not go up quickly. Yet, this kind of Yi generates muscle-damage that encourages bulding of more muscle mass. There are also "strikes" like the "Taiji push", where one makes the force wave long/large so it doesn't penetrate, and instead only pushes the person.

Though I haven't seen that so-called "zero-distance ming fa jin", we have Bruce Lee and the likes doing EMA and issuing 1-inch punches. The body mechanics these people use for issuing these punches has parallels to IMA cun-power punches, but the two aren't the same. They also feel different upon impact.

[D_Glenn]

懂劲的三个阶段 明劲、暗劲、化劲。

　　1．明劲 要做到劲整形齐，舒展其力，使劲力通、透、穿、贴、松、悍、合、坚，成为抖绝劲、爆炸劲，一绝无有不绝。在平时练习基本拳法时，手磨外五行、肘磨内五行，进退如曲腿蹚泥，又如“泥犁行”，此谓明劲阶段。

　　2．暗劲 在掌握明劲阶段的基础上，再进一步，使劲含而不露、蓄而不发，蓄意蓄劲、待而不发，以尽《山西六合心意拳》以静制动、后发制人之妙用。此谓“履薄冰”暗劲阶段。

　　3．化劲 此谓《山西六合心意拳》的高级阶段。在掌握明劲、暗劲的基础上，在与人较技中，切记舍己从人，沾连粘随；处处虚无不着力，整体浑元不弹簧，日久功深达到人不知我，我独知人，一触即发、发则必中之高超之境。应敌犹如“水中游”，此谓化劲阶段。


Understanding the 3 stages (jieduan) of Ming Jin, An JIn, and Hua Jin.


1 - Ming (Clear to see) Jin - The strength and form must be strong, precise, and clear. Extend outward with force. When putting out force it must pass through, penetrate, pierce, connect, be pliant, ferocious, round, firm, have a shaking cutting strength, and deliver explosive force. Practice and drill the hand techniques developing the external 5-Elements and the elbows to develop the internal 5-Elements. Advancing and retreating with bent legs as if wading through mud (tang ni) like "walking while plowing through mud". This is the stage of Ming JIn.

2- An (hidden) JIn - You must have already grasped and have a strong foundation in the Mingjin stage then you can start on the second stage. Now when using strength you contain it and don't reveal it on the outside. Store up (xu) but don't emit (fa). Deliberately store up your Jin. The power to 'fa' emit is held back but not released, to the opponent this feels very powerful and strange and then you can emit. This is called "Treading on thin Ice". This is the stage of Anjin.

3- Hua (transforming) Jin - This is considered the highest stage of practice. You must have already grasped the stages of Mingjin and Anjin and have a very strong foundation in them. You should have a lot of experience in fighting as you must know that this stage is 'Sheji Cong Ren' [same as the Taijiquan thread] Give up yourself and comply with the opponent. Use 'Zhan, Lian, Nian, and Sui' (sticky, link, adhering, and complying). Everywhere you need to be empty and not exerting strength. The whole body must be blending and smooth (hunyuan) and not starting and stopping. The skill of 'The opponent does not know me, I alone know the opponent.' At any time, place, or moment you can emit (fa) but only emitting force at the precise moment. This is the Hua Jing stage.


***

So like the article I posted earlier said: you essentially have Xingyi Stage 1 - which is basically 'fa'/emit force in every strike.


Then stage 2 becomes more like Baguazhang and contains/holds back the 'fa'/emitting of force and only emits at key opportunities.


Then level 3 is doing Xingyi in the same manner as Taijiquan - blending, complying with the opponent, relaxed, but still capable of 'fa' emitting in any place but only at the right time.



.

[jaime_g]

A punch need only travel a few inches
to send even the strongest and toughest man crashing
to the canvas. In fact, the very hardest punches
which have ever been delivered in a contest have only
been fully appreciated by the spectators by their
visible result. They usually seem to be such light,
simple affairs, effortless to all appearance. And
to a certain extent, almost effortless in actual fact.
Yet the recipients have candidly confessed afterwards
that they thought the roof of the building must have
fallen in on top of their heads
--------------------
Remember that you must take up power from the
ground through your legs and back. Sway all your
muscles into your punches. Make them drives.
Push off from the ground. And, above all, get your
timing and your aim right.

Jim Driscoll

¿"boxing's an jing"?