Why did you pick up CMA for health?

[johnwang]

When I'm thinking about health, I'm think about:

- Strong lung and heart through running.
- Small waist line through sitting up.
- Strong muscle through weight lifting.
- ...

CMA will not be on my health list for the following reasons. Even great CMA masters may not be able to:

- Run 24 miles none stop.
- have small waist line through form training.
- lift up 240 lb weight.
- ...

So what's the health benefit that you can obtain from CMA that you can't obtain from:

- Ballroom dancing?
- Tennis?
- Basket ball?
- ...

It seems to me that regular health exercise can help CMA but may not the other way around.

- After I had serious running training, I could feel that my solo form training became effortless.
- Even I was in good shape in CMA training, it still took me more than 6 months before I could even finish a 12 miles running nonstop.

Do you feel the same way or your experience are different from mine?

[iwalkthecircle]

i picked SC because wrestling with my buddy is fun like a chess game.
when things are fun, i will keep on doing.

running is too boring for me.
mtn biking & snowBoarding are fun.

mountaineering is fun for me, because at least you get to see\smell\touch the trees, mtn top, snow, wind.....
one time i did a mixed climb (hike, climb in steep snow with snow shoe, slide down the mountain on steep snow field) and hiked for 13 hr straight.

[krisbowen]

I chose IMA over Wing Chun for health reasons only when I first started to train in Xing Yi. I have had a pretty serious accident a few years ago and needed something to train that did not stress the body as much as other CMA did. So I gave Xing Yi a try and found the standing to be of great benefit.

A bit of time later I was introduced to Master Yan Long Chang by my teacher at the time. I was given the opportunity to train in Dai Shi Liu He Xin Yi Quan and have decided to stay with that until I pass away. The muscle development and stretching of ligaments required fits my needs for gentle training that has a cardiovascular effect.

[Craig]

John,

I have a different experience to you.

I used to do all sorts of sports (hockey, soccer, basketball), I was very active.

Since I've stopped doing all those things and only do xin yi i've noticed the following:

- I was running once a fortnight or so. As long as I was training, running was improving noticeably. I stopped running for 6 months and I was still in extremely good shape after i started running again. Now I run up a mountain twice a week. Its about 4kms uphill and i do it in around 20 mins. I think I could run 24 miles , although that is almost a full marathon so it is quite a distance. I think if someone can run 20kms (approx 12 miles) then they are in OK shape.

- I get sick FAR less, pretty much never. The few times I have been sick, there have been other people with the same cold that has been going around. I have recovered much faster than they do. (i.e. im over it in one day, they still have the same cold for 2 weeks).

- My strength hasnt increased a huge amount, however CMA maintains it very well

- My body is very toned since starting CMA. I have a better waistline than anyone I know and I dont do any situps or anything remotely similar.

- My muscular and cardiovascular endurance is superior to most people I know, including those who practice sports on a regular basis.

- I have corrected several major problems, most noticeably my lower back which used to give me all sorts of trouble.

- I am more energetic than people I know, even those doing sports. Some days I will wake up, do 2 hours of training, go to work, finish work and run up the mountain, then go straight to an acrobatics class that goes for 1 and a half hours and then go out to a nightclub until late, and wake up again the following morning at 5 for training.

My understanding is if you are not seeing these benefits from CMA training you are not doing it right, or your training is missing some key components.

[Darth Rock&Roll]

structural correction that will keep the joints supple, the bone dense and the muscle tissue dense but supple. These for me are the primary effects of martial art practice in the "soft" sense.

you cannot refine mechanics and structure with many other things, but with good Martial arts, you can correct a lot of old injuries and poor habits as far as health is concerned.

It is like yoga in some respects inasmuch as it will with proper practice correct your posture and rid you of joint pains and all sorts of sedate lifestyle based maladies such as obesity, lethargy, poor breathing, poor posture etc etc.

as for running and such, well there simply aren't that many people who can run a marathon period. lol. and those people that can run far aren't necessarily strong in other ways. many are weak in the upper body. Many who lift weight are not supple and have bad joints and aches and pains from years of lifting, many who have slender waists do not have the mental fortitude of the martial artist.

Martial arts give a rounded approach to ones physicality. Health wise, the benefits are as I listed and likely a whole lot more. I've been involved in some form of martial arts or another for pretty much my whole life...so I might be a bit biased in my point of view.

[SPJ]

1. CMA posture practice would help your balance.

2. stepping practice is almost like walking or slow jogging only in a "specific" or predefined manner.

3. hitting and kicking practice on bags or pads would increase in your strength and fitness.

--

I swim for health and fitness.

I practice CMA for fun, for developing certain skills (even thou the use of them may not be practical in a gun society), for fitness. balance and strength--

I guess health aspect is only part of CMA practice.

of course, if we over do them or do not caution enough, we may injure ourself easily from hitting and kicking practice.

--

[SPJ]

actually, if your focus is in gaining health via CMA practice.

1. Then practice posturing and deep posturing. It is almost like those of yoga.

2. Breathing exercise or qi gong, just about all the styles have specific breathing exercise.

--

[qiphlow]

how many 80 or 90 year old marathon runners/heavy weightlifters are still doing their thing? how many 80 or 90 year old MA practitioners are still doing their thing?
i'm thinking there are way more of the latter.

[onyomi]

I think Qigong, Taiji forms and Tantui-type exercises in which you are holding a variety of stretched positions which you "breathe into" help improve relaxation, circulation and coordination. Swimming is considered one of the best exercises because you're working with a constant, gentle resistance through a large range of motion, low-impact with rhythmic breathing. Sounds a lot like Tantui to me.

[C.J.Wang]

There is a Chinese doctor I know who's a professor at China Medical University in Taiwan. He belives that CMA and related Qigong practice are far superior than any Western sports and common exercises. In Western medicial science, it is believed that in order to receive maximum benefits of aeroic exercise, the exercise intesity and duration must reach a certain heartrate with the participant panting, gasping for air, and sweating profusely. This type of exercise is actually considered to be detrimental to health from the point of view of Chinese medicine. For someone who's weak in terms of blood and qi, doing such exercise would actually deplete his energy further and make the body worse.

Take a look at professional athletes. They train for hours a day and are strong and fast in their youth. By the time they reach middle-age with weakening blood and qi, many of them suffer from various forms of sports injuries and even die young.

Speaking from personal experience, I used to have terrible knee pains from overtraining Aikido's kneeling techniques. It wasn't until I started zhang zhuang and Ba Duan Jin that the pain slowly went away. Combined with specific forms of breathing, ZZ can be so intense that I often find myself covered in sweat within 5 minutes. My body is warmed up from inside out and completely energized. I haven't been able to feel similar results from any forms of western exercise that involves rigorous movements.

[kenneth delves]

I agree with Giphlow, I gave up Shaolin in my 40's because my body couldn no longer take the rigorous training and took up Hsing yi. I never regretted it. The accent on energy and breath, structure has left me, as a senior, in better shape and more able to defend myself than my contemporaries who chose the purely physical route. Among friends in the MA in their 50's I see joint problems through excessive lifting, sprains and breaks through excessive running. Does this mean I dont think aerobics are of any use, absolutely not, I think that it should complement the IMA, I see many TCC practitioners who could benefit from it and also some weights and strength training but in moderation

[gretel]

I didn't pick Tai Chi for health reasons (so maybe I shouldn't answer). I chose to continue with it after an introductory class because it felt good and I liked the way it looked. I initially was looking for a moving mindfulness practice. Then I found it was making positive impacts on my body, especially in terms of balance, coordination, and leg strength. And learning it was a challenge I had to step up to.
Now I find I need to be stronger and I'm doing water aerobics and also balance and strength training. The additional exercise is really to make my Tai Chi better, better kicks, more hip flexibility, more strength and balance.
Not everything is done for a purpose. You don't learn dancing as a fancy way to get from one side of the room to another. Tai Chi is its own purpose.

gretel

[64Palms]

When I'm thinking about health, I'm think about:

- Strong lung and heart through running.
- Small waist line through sitting up.
- Strong muscle through weight lifting.
- ...

Why do you equate a small waist line and ability to lift weights with health - where did you obtain this idea? The reason i ask is because besides "glamour" magazines and a minority of modern medical professionals these two do not equal "health" from many peoples perspectives.

Health is undoubtedly a state of both mental fitness and physical fitness - it just depends on how you view the body whether a particular "body type" is considered healthy. It reminds me of the tale of the 3 blind men and the elephant. Each one was asked to touch a part of the elephant and describe what an elephant looks like. One said its body structure is thin and hairy, one said it is thick and "trunk like", the other said that it was round and distended, like a drum. They all felt the same elephant yet all came back with different results. This is the same as comparing Chinese / East Asian views on health and modern views on health.

To start, the Chinese view is focused more on what is within than what is on the outside - superfical physical attributes have never been a large component of the "Chinese" body. This is because of how they viewed the body - as energetic interactions. Their knowledge of anatomy and muscular function did not come into play until jesuits entered China only a few hundred years ago (and even then that knowledge was limited). This does bring us back to the notion of Qi - and if one had plenty of it and it was in the right places then that person could be considered healthy. Health, from a CMA / TCM aspect came through regular but not excessive exercise, proper dietary intake, emotional equilibrium, inner cultivation (NeiGong) combined with knowledge of the outer cultivation (WaiGong), apporiate sexual conduct (primarily from Daoist sources) etc. Harder to obtain than a skinny waist and big muscles - but that was the general idea. And most of it was done (as most of it was sourced from Daoist, Buddhist and Confucian ideologies) in order for the adept to acheive longevity, immortality, enlightenment and so on.

The modern western perspective differs from this greatly. Firstly - the Chinese martial arts, cultivation practices and medicinal practices focused intently on the lower abdomen and utilised that as a storehouse - this is what they desired to be "healthy". Modern components (which obviously change daily) focus on, as you said, the upper part - big chest, chest breathing, heart rate etc. From a CH point of view this is no good - putting everything so high up (the vice versa has yet to be critical analysed). Many individuals that i have come across feel that the tighter and harder thier body is the better - again CH looks at a balance between the two.

I am not criticising Western health perspectives - it has many great benefits and as technological advancements continue our knowledge of what we are becomes greater, and hence our knowledge of health will too. However, what can be considered healthy really needs to be looked at through the eye of the beholder, and therefore comparing the two leads to looking at in Black and White (similar to what i have just done!) and that can lead to conflict between ideas. Integrating the two would be my preference - like with studying martial arts - take what you like and what you feel works and maintain and cultivate what feels healthy to you.

[64Palms]

Having written the above i guess i should answer the core question: i chose it because it made me feel good - when other sports and exercises did not. I grew up with an understanding of the body from a Chinese perspective so therefore i may be biased, but that is my experience. The more i gained an understanding of the body, the better it made me feel when i did the exercise.

[johnwang]

Why do you equate a small waist line and ability to lift weights with health - where did you obtain this idea?

The small waist line means that you still have waist flexibility. As long as your waist (the center of your body) is still flexible, your age won't affect your physical body. Also slim waist line means that you are not over weight. Weight training can increase your bone density so when you get old, your body won't shrink. The lung and heart capacity determine your endurance which is the main issue for survive.