internal before external is a waste of time?

[Bugang]

.

[Bugang]

+1. once you get strong enough however, true relaxation becomes possible,

+1

[Bugang]

To play devil's advocate for a paragraph, I have to point out that coming into internal training after having trained "external" (whether MA or physical training such as power lifting) for a long time, can be detrimental to inculcating the "wiring" and habits of internal methods. It can take years, for example, to undo the wiring for firing shoulder and upper back muscles, torquing/twisting the hips to punch and strike, and other mechanically different methodology.

True! I have Students coming from Karate who NEVER will get a glimpse of song

[Bugang]

Should you train strength and tension before relaxation? Yes.

Should you first train an incomplete 'outside door' style that has no 'shenfa'? No.

One should start learning 'shenfa' from day one, it's a long process and the sooner the better, plus it's really hard to change old habits and get someone to learn new tricks.

.

Sums the principle up pretty well!

[Niall Keane]

One should not confuse tufu Zhang with nei jia chuan.

There are plenty of jibigung excercises in taichi chuan for example though many only practice form and a handful of compliant (beginer level) tuishou drills.

You cannot make a silk purse from a pig's ear.

[Dmitri]

True! I have Students coming from Karate who NEVER will get a glimpse of song

Maybe you could explore different teaching methods.
"Never" is a strong (and desperate and hopeless) word.
IME even the "worst" people can get somewhere with internal work, given good feedback and enough time.

[Bao]

The softest tai chi practitioner I know spent 15 years practicing Karate before completely going over to Tai Chi. So it can be done.

[Bugang]

Yes, it can be done. I only say that some of my Students never get it. You all know Students who never will be able to to a particular thing.

[Bugang]

I have been wondering about the heel/ball pivoting thing for quite some time. After reading the post in this thread I had another (probably very controversial) Idea: LIke has been stated in actual fight it depends on what you want to do. You should be able to do both. In Taijiquan Form training some always do it this way, some always (or mostly) the other way. So in Solo form there is no "dependent on occasion". So what's the "right" way in Solo Form? Does it matter? For some, the solo form is not so much about apps but a sort of Qigong and Yi/Peng-Jin traing. So I think for them it matters.

Because for me nothing is clear at all, I started a T_hread on this:

http://www.rumsoakedfist.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=25299&sid=f2b21e7bfc982e9d1f9757584445bba4

[Niall Keane]

I have been wondering about the heel/ball pivoting thing for quite some time. After reading the post in this thread I had another (probably very controversial) Idea: LIke has been stated in actual fight it depends on what you want to do. You should be able to do both. In Taijiquan Form training some always do it this way, some always (or mostly) the other way. So in Solo form there is no "dependent on occasion". So what's the "right" way in Solo Form? Does it matter? For some, the solo form is not so much about apps but a sort of Qigong and Yi/Peng-Jin traing. So I think for them it matters.

Because for me nothing is clear at all, I started a T_hread on this:

http://www.rumsoakedfist.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=25299&sid=f2b21e7bfc982e9d1f9757584445bba4

"Lies to children" , just like western boxers train the hook. Show me a profesional fight where they pivot back on to the back foot as trained?
Each style has it's own lies to build its ... well... style of doing things.
And of course those not proficient enough to understand style, those who haven't stepped outside of the kwon, kick up a fuss about the correct method....