Faith in what you do

[Darthwing Teorist]

Martial arts development is spiral and incremental. The thing is that martial arts are not about some abstract "art" but about yourself. If something from a different style helps you to get an improvement in skill, understanding or both, use it. If you find something that is not working from your own style, investigate why: can you understand the principles underlying it and adapt them to today's conditions and make them work? Or is it a notion that should truly be discarded?

Do not forget, even Buddha told his disciples to not take his words for DA TRUZ, but to investigate and see for themselves. That is one of the best advice for martial arts or anything else. Have faith in yourself and what works for you but only after investigation and hard work.

Of course, there are things that you cannot use right away, you have to work on them. That is natural, this is why Chinese martial arts are called Kung Fu. But that does not mean that you cannot use your head to comprehend and see that if it is something that may work with some practice and patience or is it something out of someone's fantasy. You only get better at discerning these things as you practice and are honest with yourself (not always easy).

[spring]

Agreed, yet Buddha and the teachers in his tradition stress to pick one method and penetrate it. Now lets ask ourselves - who of us has attained the level of a Luo De Xu, Su Dong Chen or Sam Chin, at which they have truly become what they do?

[Bao]

I don't understand what some of you have against the word "faith". To be able to be successful in anything you first need to believe in it. If you don't believe that you are going to learn how to fight, you will never learn to fight. If you don't believe in relaxation you will never learn how to relax properly or stay relaxed. Everything requires faith. Only if you have faith, you are able to stay focused in your practice and be fully committed to your goal. It's really simple actually.

[Josealb]

How about using the word Confidence, instead? its a clean, non dogmatic word, and its clear that faith develops in the absence of confidence. But, confidence can be built and developed. It can me backed up by results and proven. Unlike faith, which is just wishful thinking and hoping for the best.

IMO.

[spring]

Yes Bao, your last two lines sum up my point.

If we want to become truly expert, a professional in what style we do, or attain depth, we need to stay focused on one thing until the goal is reached.

Who, on this board, I wonder, has plumbed the depths of one art enough to begin to be able to mix their art with other things without ruining its central integrity?

Why do even the famous western teachers look nowhere near the level of Chinese experts , in stancework, connectedness or ability to demonstrate the unique jin and skills of each art? Give or take a couple of notable exceptions in 'non-neijia' arts.

It is because most westerners are notorious dabblers, or begin teaching far too soon and then stop training hard, thinking they are already 'damned good' .

I did not write the original post to make argument, but for those who look to this board for hints as to their own practice, who are sincere, who really ponder what is written instead of just reacting because it doesnt fit in with what they do.

Everyone will follow their way I guess.


Jose

Good point, in my thinking belief is unfound because untested, faith is knowledge based on experience.

[Darthwing Teorist]

Confidence is tricky too. Have confidence in yourself and technique and even your art. But, even experienced people lose their confidence to deal with nasty situations. They certainly have the ability. I noticed this too lately: the more I understand martial arts, the less confident I feel dealing with a real situation. Too much to lose. Or maybe it is age.

[qiphlow]

Confidence is tricky too. Have confidence in yourself and technique and even your art. But, even experienced people lose their confidence to deal with nasty situations. They certainly have the ability. I noticed this too lately: the more I understand martial arts, the less confident I feel dealing with a real situation. Too much to lose. Or maybe it is age.

i know what you mean.

[Bao]

its clear that faith develops in the absence of confidence. But, confidence can be built and developed.

I am not sure that it is always that simple. If you have confidence you will develop faith in what you do. And if you have faith in your practice, your faith can keep you runnin' so you have time to develop confidence.

I think many people too easily disregard "faith" as religious non-intellectual, non-logical and no-common sense. But I think having faith in something can be very valuable and very much common sense. If you want to develop a body-skill, for instance let have a very extreme example, let say that you have become paralyzed from an accident. If you have faith in that you are going to be able to walk again, your "faith" can actually affect your nervous system, so you will heal better and help your body recover faster and better in a way that will help you when you try to learn how to walk again. "Faith" can prepare your body in many ways for many things. And the fact is that this has been scientifically proved, over and over again, in many different tests and studies.

[Josealb]

Of course, Bao. With enough faith a person can do amazing things, pretty much anything (because its consistent...it makes you stick to a plan). But not on faith alone. Faith by itself is not very productive.

[Chris Fleming]

"If we want to become truly expert, a professional in what style we do, or attain depth, we need to stay focused on one thing until the goal is reached.

Who, on this board, I wonder, has plumbed the depths of one art enough to begin to be able to mix their art with other things without ruining its central integrity?"

Care to share who your learn from and how long?

[spring]

Chris, please check my previous posts, somewhere in there I give a detailed resume of my Sun Bagua teacher and how long I learned.

[Bao]

Faith by itself is not very productive.

No, not very productive on it's own.

we need to stay focused on one thing until the goal is reached.
Who, on this board, I wonder, has plumbed the depths of one art enough to begin to be able to mix their art with other things without ruining its central integrity?

I don't think I reach any "high" goal. But it took my about 15 years to learn how to trust in softness and stay relaxed. That was one goal I set out to reach and I was very satisfied when my teacher stopped nagging: "You must relax better" or "Now you start to tense up again." Maybe I am just stupid taking so long time just to learn softness . . .

[Fubo]

Agreed, yet Buddha and the teachers in his tradition stress to pick one method and penetrate it. Now lets ask ourselves - who of us has attained the level of a Luo De Xu, Su Dong Chen or Sam Chin, at which they have truly become what they do?

Interesting you should mention Luo and Su, as they have done many years of cross-training, and trained different arts along side each other before they we considered "masters".

[Fubo]

Why do even the famous western teachers look nowhere near the level of Chinese experts , in stancework, connectedness or ability to demonstrate the unique jin and skills of each art? Give or take a couple of notable exceptions in 'non-neijia' arts.

It is because most westerners are notorious dabblers, or begin teaching far too soon and then stop training hard, thinking they are already 'damned good' .

What about Tim Cartmell? I'd say he's a pretty freakin good example of a westerner that is right up there with the best of the "neijia" Chinese experts.

Most westerners do not have the quality of training in the west (relative to people actually living in the Chinese towns/cities where the experts teach and train) to be able to reach the level of top Chinese experts - that being said, quality western practitioners in CMA are around - but your sentence is like saying: Most Chinese MMA fighters are no where near the level of the top western MMA fighters because Chinese are notorious dabblers etc... You have to consider the context and the level/amount of training available in the respective countries.

[Chris Fleming]

Chris, please check my previous posts, somewhere in there I give a detailed resume of my Sun Bagua teacher and how long I learned.

Since you know Sun Bagua, then you ought to know that Sun Lu Tang trained in Xing Yi, Bagua, AND Taiji. Even went to create his own style of Taiji. Sun Lu Tang was one of the very best (if not the best) examples of CMA greats. Kinda blows that argument of real masters don't "cross train" ( ) right out of the water huh?