Women and over-confidence

[Iskendar]

Interesting discussion on this topic here.

[yusuf]

good find Iskendar..

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[Waterway]

There's no magic cure... anything will obviously require a ton of training, until the martially-relevant response becomes your second nature.

Re. "a more rounded program of training may be required to have a good physical system to fight back with." -- Just in case you didn't know, GJJ includes a pretty good set of techniques for basic/most common stand-up (empty-hand, club/stick, knife and handgun) scenarios. It's not as fancy as many other stand-up MA, but then again you're by far more likely to be attacked in a fairly simple manner (shove to chest, grab clothes + punch, headlock, grab throat + pin against the wall + punch, etc.), rather than with some crazy spinning reverse double-flipping superman axe kick or something.

I've seen some of the online stuff from the Gracie Academy. Certainly GJJ seems to train with "self defence" in mind instead of exclusively focusing on the sport that most BJJ schools focus on. The Gracie Barra and Carslon Gracie Jr affiliates in my neck of the woods train purely for sport and I've seen some silly things that work well in the sport of BJJ but would be madness anywhere else (e.g. Jumping guard). Just my opinion. The Gracie Academy stuff looks more practical and its good to see people are still training that way.

[Iskendar]

good find Iskendar..

Yeah, Wim writes some interesting stuff. Used to post as wimde on "the other forum", dunno if he ever made it here...

[jonathan.bluestein]

Interesting discussion on this topic here.

That video was a really good example of what I was talking about. Good article too. Thanks.

[jaskey]

Having went to an art school, I have been friends with a lot of girls and girly men.
70% of the girls (obviously an estimate) do not think that they are good at and not even interested in fighting or martial arts. Actually, it was rather hard to find any sportive activities they would like except for yoga, Pilates, and running at treadmills.

But the other 25% of the girls are not interested in martial arts neither. They are only interested in proving that they are tough and can scrap. Not that they actually will get themselves into a fight, but they believe and want to prove their toughness in a very controlled way. These girls tends to be the more independent types that likes to prove that they can do what they set out to do. And to their credit they usually do. A funny thing that happened with one of these girls was that I was going to box them. They had their guard up and I threw a jab at her guard. (Not very lightly I must admit) After my glove hit her glove which hit her face, she paused and said, "my guard hit me." Like she thought that was the most ridiculous thing in the world. And that ended the boxing match.

The remaining 5% are the ladies in my martial arts classes who actually are interested in making themselves stronger, not just proving themselves. And I have the most respect for these ladies than any 25% above, whether they are indeed tough or not.

[Dmitri]

GJJ seems to train with "self defence" in mind instead of exclusively focusing on the sport that most BJJ schools focus on.

Yeah, our school doesn't focus on sport stuff not only "exclusively" -- it doesn't focus on it at all, even though some people there do like to compete. It's almost "anti-sport" in some ways... Continuous reminders to "duck your head" (to avoid punches) when in some positions on the ground, no-gi variations for most moves, etc. are all over the place, and when rolling we have some set-in-stone rules like if you have them in your guard and you feel like they begin to lift you off the mat -- you must open the legs and let them go, and some other things like that. Personally I also always try to be aware of striking opportunities (in both directions, from offense and defense standpoint) and generally avoiding getting into bad-habit positions, like e.g. one scenario I see happening a LOT, when you're staying on your elbows and knees while the other guy on top is looking for submissions/to take your back, etc. -- on the street he would just drop the elbow on the back of your head and that'd be that, so I always try to roll on my back so that I face him and see what's going on.

I hear you re. "jumping guard", etc. I went to roll a few times with some guys (from another school) who focus on competitions a lot, and they were all into "spider guards" and some other weird stuff that will never happen on the street... (don't get me wrong, some of them were very good in general.) But for me personally, it's all about "the basics", a very few core/fundamental proven techniques, worked on and refined over and over again -- instead of memorizing hundreds of fancy moves.

Anyway, sorry for the length, didn't mean to derail...

[fuga]

I do believe it is still pervasive in many cultures, including in developed countries , that women will try to "dumb down" and "weaken down" front of men so as not to be perceived as a threat to their fragile egos. After all, men are supposed to be the big, strong, smart paychec.... er... protectors!

Maybe we should change the title to "Men and overconfidence"

[Chris Fleming]

Found it very interesting back when I taught in a commercial school the typical stereotypes were largely reversed. We were always taught that no matter what a man said, from age 8 to 80 deep down he was only interested in self defense whereas women want the health benefits of martial arts. More often than not, men would say that they were interested in doing something for their health and learning how to relax and women wanted to learn how to fight. Some of the male students basically felt that while the skills were certainly good to have, the chances of them actually getting into a fight were negligible. I had one woman actually tell me she wanted to learn how to kill people. That was one of the first things she said to me upon meeting her. I told her go join the army. She actually did sign up at the school but didn't stay long, as there were no death matches on Friday nights.

In any case, women are taught from a young age that they can hit a man and not worry about being hit back. It's not like I've done some study about it but from seeing a lot of kids I think it starts as a child. Boys hit boys all the time but get in big trouble if they hit a girl. I've seen girls actually hit adults (in the way that a child does) because they think they could. Why on earth a parent would allow that is beyond me.

How 'bout this example:



I guess the woman on the game show is paid to act really mean but notice how when she assaults the guy and he hits back, he is the one who gets mobbed.

In any case, this was funny--"women will try to "dumb down" and "weaken down" front of men so as not to be perceived as a threat to their fragile egos."

I was wondering how long before this thread's attention was put back on men. From what I've seen of women in the work place, their number one, numero uno, dai ichiban enemy is....wait for it....other women. The games, the utter cattiness, the subtle put downs and competition they play on each other....for NO REASON except to get their fix of drama to soothe their addiction for it makes my head spin.

[yusuf]

well put it this way CHris, the overwhelming majority, i'd bet 80% plus of violence against women is committed by Men.. I'd further bet that a higher % of murders, rapes etc are committed by men.... inevitably ina thread about women and violence the focus will turn to how women can defend themselves against men, and by extension what assholes men are for attacking the first place..

and yes i disagree on women being the leading cause of gossip and cattiness in the workplace.. the assholish complaints and moaning i hear is equally from men and women...

[Chris Fleming]

"well put it this way CHris, the overwhelming majority, i'd bet 80% plus of violence against women is committed by Men.. I'd further bet that a higher % of murders, rapes etc are committed by men...."

Is that supposed to be surprising? Some major discovery on your part?

"inevitably ina thread about women and violence the focus will turn to how women can defend themselves against men, and by extension what assholes men are for attacking the first place..""

And why not? Just off subject that's all.

"and yes i disagree on women being the leading cause of gossip and cattiness in the workplace.. the assholish complaints and moaning i hear is equally from men and women..."

Sure all people complain. Just saying that women are their own worst enemy in the workplace. Don't know for sure here specifically but people who often take any occasion to promote gender equality when it comes to negative characteristics of either sex (by saying "oh they BOTH do that") are usually the modern feminized males attempting to seem "enlightened" and "nice".

[Waterway]

I've never seen ANY negative human trait that was completely gender specific. Not promoting an agenda here, just an observation.

[Interloper]

I've never seen ANY negative human trait that was completely gender specific. Not promoting an agenda here, just an observation.

Agreed. Human is human.

[Dmitri]

...unless you count PMS as a "human trait".

(j/k... couldn't resist... )

[yusuf]

...unless you count PMS as a "human trait".

(j/k... couldn't resist... )

i think some of the posts on this forum prove male pms is reality