I'm converting

[shawnsegler]

is there something inherently superior about walking in circles?

Yup.

Circle walking is not just walking in a circle. It's about all kinds of small variations of posture that are the part of the style they're in. In the bagua I do we do pretty extreme twisting at the begining, and it's more like holding a yoga posture than the repetitive quality garnered by pounding on a heavy bag...even if you can get all zen wit it . The long term posture holding and deep twisting focus the mind in the areas of tension in the body and hold them there. Then you get to figure out how to release that. In the process you have to modify the way you think and react to movement in the interior of the body. Since a lot of your thought processes are feedback loops telling you about danger in the environment and whether or not you are going to fall down (basic balance) you have to work through how to not react to those stimuli in the same way so that your body can relax (be sung) enough to start utilizing the fluid dynamics of the body and tendonous strength over brute muscular force (as awesome as that is for pounding someone when it's appropriate).

Anyhoo, there's only two ways to do that to the body...stretch it or twist it, and forcing spiral shapes (twisting) into your nervous system over a long period of time via walkikng in a circle changes both the way you think and the way you move as well as your ability have a much higher level of control of movement throughout the totality of the body based on the way the mind has to become intimate with the body by the spiral postural distinctions.

Does that make sense?

Best,

S- king of the runon sentence

[JAB]

Just for the record I train more with BJJ cats. We do Vale Tudo, but I cannot always make the class, and it is not our focus. I have also been training with a boxer, but no MMA. Kurt Robbins posts here every now and then, does MMA with Matt Humes school. He will agree with about 99.9% of what I say. Couple others.
Nothing wrong with CMA, but lets not get so defensive to the point where we attack and belittle other arts. Every school is different in every style. Sure there are assholes in MMA gyms out there, as there are in CMA (just talking to a friend yesterday about how bad certain Hung Ga schools have become in the area in this regard!). I admit Yamamoto is kind of a dick in the ring, but in the highlight real I saw nothing but professional instruction and training, where there was no excessive ego (exception being the clip of the stereotypical pitbull ), nor bullying. Look at Imanari as the same example....kind of a prick in the ring, but an amazing practitioner.
Check out each school and compare it to what you wish to get out of training. Nothing wrong with Su, I am sure. But just because you have access to some of the best MMA fighters in the WORLD, does not mean they are going to be pricks to you. Does not mean they won't not be pricks either though .

Cheers
Jake

[ashe]

Jake,

i think you missed the several times where i said i would train in sakurabas place given the opportunity, because i respect the ability and the work ethic those guys have when it comes to training and the inevitable result of your game being stepped up by association.

i was also careful to add the initial caveat that my opinions are based on the information that i have and my experience so far with people who have been "close" to the scene.

EDIT- i'll admit though, that my words sounded simultaneously both more off hand and absolute than the intent behind them.

but, even if the fighters themselves are a different story, the industry itself is fostering a predatory attitude.



and with the exception of rorion (?) gracie, i don't think i've heard of any mma guys really taking their art to the level of really pursuing some kind of self cultivation (so far).

[JAB]

Ashe,
Was not directed directly to you. And I agree that the "industry" is sending it down the tubes!
Rorion eh?? I would argue Rickson over Rorion. But that is a different thread. There are many bro, but like many true warriors they do not boast or brag publicy.
Cheers
Jake

[ashe]

I would argue Rickson over Rorion.

you're probably right. i can't remember which brother it was. the one who had that video where he was doing yoga on the beach and talking about how he basically uses BJJ to explore himself as a person, to test himself and grow...

do you remember that clip?

[Elliot]

Shawn,
Very informative post. I see that walking the circle in Bagua is much more than just walking in circles. The practice sounds like excellent training for whatever attributes the style requires. On the other hand, if you ever get a chance to train in a fight school, you may be surprised to find the attributes gained from similar, long, repetitive training although different from those developed with specific CMA forms, are no less "deep."

utilizing the fluid dynamics of the body and tendonous strength over brute muscular force

Spoken like a good boxing coach.

[shawnsegler]

Oh, I'm sure. They are just different.

Go walk the circle for a couple of years and let me know how you feel then.

Best,

S

[Dmitri]

I would argue Rickson over Rorion.

you're probably right. i can't remember which brother it was. the one who had that video where he was doing yoga on the beach and talking about how he basically uses BJJ to explore himself as a person, to test himself and grow...

do you remember that clip?

Dunno about the clip but that sure sounds like Rickson.

[Bodywork]

It was Rickson
He was also the first to recognize that BJJ had to move on...to Vale Tudo. It was interesting to see a BJJer without a gi and wearing 5 oz gloves.
The ground and pound upsets many advantages that BJJ can bring to a match. So does a good stand up game. Many predicted the game would evolve and it did-nicely.
That said BJJ remains a great system.

[JAB]

Rickson indeed. I have video footage of him doing seminars in the early 90's with a pony tail! I would have loved to have met him!
Jake

[Elliot]

the one who had that video where he was doing yoga on the beach and talking about how he basically uses BJJ to explore himself as a person, to test himself and grow...

The clip is from a documentary called "Choke."

http://www.amazon.com/Rickson-Gracie-Ch ... 6305870748

[Muad'dib]

Get the troll out of my thread and off this board please.

[ashe]

Get the troll out of my thread and off this board please.

but there are so many... which one do you mean?

[Upyu]

Sup D!
Sucks to hear you're quitting, there's decent teachers out there though.
I'd definitely go with whatever is closer...
You should hit me up when you got time, I'm definitely not the same guy as I was 2-3 years ago

Anyways, I'd drop by Ark's class before making a full opinion of what the method's like...
I kinda gave you a reallly brief one-over as to what are conditioning drills are like, which doesn't in any way represent how the curriculum is now.


If you're ever out this way, I'm training with Ryan Bow occasionally, it's awesome since for whatever reason NO ONE shows up to his damn class...
which means 1 - 1 time with the top ranked shooto-fighter for grapplin practice...for like 4000Y a month

Sent you a pm, check ur inbox

[Muad'dib]

Rob, you punk. I thought you left the country...

As for the same guy 2-3 years ago, the same goes for me... I'm worse. (3 years of school will take it out of you.)

I'll give you a call. Where is Ryan Bow, btw?

At this point, it may be entirely moot anyway, since my budget sucks...