Chinese Broadsword

[JoseFreitas]

My main quibble with it is that when people say "broadsword" they will think it's some sort of straight sword. But you are right! We should call it a scimitar, or perhaps, as Michael suggested, a falchion. These would be the closest to what a Dao looks like. On the other hand I've seen a lot of sabers without guards that cover the fingers. I even own one from the Napoleonic wars.

[edededed]

Note that not all dao are made the same - some look like scimitars, some look like sabers, others look like something completely different.

[JoseFreitas]

Yes, the southern style saber, which is used by some Yang lineages, looks a lot more like a western saber than the traditional dao. One of my kungfu brothers has a kickass double southern saber set. I also like the short halberd, Pu Dao.

Here is our version, from my teacher's Jing Wu line, done by another one of my colleagues here in Lisbon:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYf7InguDGc

[Mitlov]

My main quibble with it is that when people say "broadsword" they will think it's some sort of straight sword. But you are right! We should call it a scimitar, or perhaps, as Michael suggested, a falchion. These would be the closest to what a Dao looks like. On the other hand I've seen a lot of sabers without guards that cover the fingers. I even own one from the Napoleonic wars.

I think the term "scimitar" is probably avoided because of the strong association of that term with the Middle East. I've never heard the term "scimitar" used to refer to a weapon from outside of the Middle East. As for why we don't use the term "falchion," you got me there.

One way in which the term "broadsword" makes sense is in the 17th-18th century sense, not the medieval sense. Broadswords of the 17th and 18th century, including but not limited to the Scottish basket-hilt claymore, may have had straight, two-sided blades, but they were still primarily meant for slashing and chopping as opposed to piercing. They were often used by troops, whereas "straight swords" from the same period, more commonly known as "epees," were much lighter, thinner blades associated with officers. At the risk of oversimplifying, one could say that a basket-hilt claymore is to an epee what a dao is to a jian. So I think the term "Chinese broadsword" for a dao is just as appropriate as the term "Scottish broadsword" for a basket-hilt claymore.

[TaoJoannes]

Because the Dao is one of the dumb weapons of CMA and the only dumb weapon of Taijiquan.

Bao, please explain - what is a "dumb" weapon ? Maybe you mean that the weapon wielder is stupid?

Well, you know, dumb... like a scimitar, or a saber.

[edededed]

Niuweidao - a thick, widening curved single-bladed sword (stereotypical scimitar); seen in most Chinese martial arts
Liuyedao - a medium-width slightly curved single-bladed sword (saber?); seen in Yang style taijiquan and some xingyiquan styles
Yanmaodao - a medium-width mostly straight single-bladed sword
Miaodao - long, thin somewhat curved sword (like a huge katana); seen in tongbeiquan, piguaquan, etc.

Instead of using specific words for weapons of a certain culture to identify Chinese weapons, why not just make a new word?

Japan did it - "katana" was a made-up word to match the foreign Chinese idea of distinguishing bladed weapons in terms of whether they had two blades or one. (Kata (single/one side) + ba (blade) = kataba -> katana) Of course, they later forgot this meaning for the most part and nowadays don't have much distinction between jian (ken/tsurugi) and dao (tou/katana).

[edededed]

Also - taijiquan prizes its jian methods the most, baguazhang its dao methods, xingyiquan its spear methods.

Baguazhang's dao is by no means dumb.

[Waterway]

UPDATE

Had the class yesterday. It was 4 hours in length, though actually training time was about 3 hours because we had a few breaks.

I was told the form was from Wu Taijiquan. We were shown the first part of the form. Having watched my instructor go through the whole form, I said we (the students) learnt about a quarter or a third of the form in class.

We started off with the Dao ( a cheap & cheerful piece of merchandise but it seemed to do the trick!) in our left hand. We were shown how to hold the Dao. We were then shown the first part of the form, followed by some light Dao excercises (e.g. chopping, slicing etc...) then some more of the form.

Overall, I found it benefical. As some of you mentioned, I was doing a lot of twisting and turning, especially in the hips.

I also found that by carrying the Dao, I was more aware of body in relation to the Dao. By that I mean that I was trying to make sure the Dao was in the right place at the right time in the form, and I used my body to guide me e.g. I was conscious of were my free right hand was in relation to my left hand, if my left hand was in my centre line etc.... I know I should be aware of this anyway in Taijiquan, but I felt benefit to using the Dao to getting my body in the right place at the right time, if that makes sense!

I will keep at it because I feel it will helped me based on where I am at in Taijiquan. I will try and keep you all updated!

[Andy_S]

A few comments.

There is some question about the vintage of the current Chen Dao form. Originally, it was (as noted in a post above) simply 13 separate techniques; Chen Zhaopei invented the form in the early- or mid-20th century (ie well after the dao had had its day on the battlefield, bar a few Chinese eccentrics who wielded them in the war against Japan and - in one case I know of - in Korea). Why would ZP have invented a dao form? Perhaps to compete with other MAs at the time that had long, convoluted weapon forms: The students of ZP's generation, like us today, took up Taiji largely for exercise and personal interest; they were not hard men, gangsters, bodyguards or soldiers who expected to use their arts in deadly/armed combat. The last use I have heard of any form of Taiji being applied in mortal combat was Chen Fake's despatching of a bandit with his staff at the gates of Wenxian in (I believe...?) around 1920.

I dispute Elliot's thesis that a kettlebell or barbell gives better exercie benefits than a dao (or other weapon) assuming it is appropriately weighted. You are not going to be doing ballastic, twisting, spinning movements with barbells...it is not a superior form of exercise to weights, but it is a different form of exercise. If you do not believe that a sword will give you strength in the arm, and will demand solidity of stance, I suggest you have not done much sword work, eastern or western. Medieval knights often had massively overdeveloped arm and shoulder muscles from their weapon workouts...some modern historians consider that they may have appeared (a la Richard III) deformed by this practice.

Personally, I find the Chen Dao form (which, franky, I do not practice that frequently) a good exercise IF done using a weighted blade. "Braking" a fast moving sword is an athletic challenge for the arm and wrist; there is also a strong element of flow around your own axes - are you guiding the sword, or is the sword guiding you?

I agree broadsword is misleading as a term, given the the term broadsword in the Western sense applies to completely different weapons. Falchion is not much better: The falchion was introduced in Europe after Crusaders' experience with curved blades in the Middle East, and soon mutated into something much bigger and heavier. Personally, I would favor the term scimitar, or possibly sabre (though the sabre, in Western armies, was a weapon most commonly used by light cavalrymen, from horseback). But as none of these European terms are exact, why not just use the Chinese term?

Finally, a good reason to practice the dao is that it is a sword. If you want to have some conception of what our martial ancestors experienced, there is not escaping the fact that the sword was the king of weapons in many, many cultures throughout the ages. IMHO, there is a certain martial mystique to a sword that a butcher's knife, an assault rifle or a baseball bat lacks. Yes, I like swords - be they on the wall, or in the hand.