B.K Frantzis's Book: Power of IMA and Chi

[D_Glenn]

What's kind of strange is the first edition that came out 10 years ago was called "The Power of Internal Martial Arts: Combat Secrets of Ba Gua, Tai Chi, and Hsing-I ", while the newest edition that's in bookstores now is called "The Power of Internal Martial Arts and Chi : Combat and Energy Secrets of Ba Gua, Tai Chi and Hsing-I".

[edededed]

Oh, is this the same book? I did hear of a new edition, but I didn't know that the title was changed.

Well - I can say that I enjoyed his book immensely when I bought it (lots of neat anecdotes and such), and it got me interested in bagua enough to start learning it! Although he tends to be vague when talking about various bagua powers/methods or such, it is also interesting to be able to recognize what he is talking about for a lot of these things now that I know a bit myself!

There are a few historical inaccuracies (or at least there were in the edition I have), but who doesn't have a few of these? A few I remember:

- Shanxi xingyiquan vs. Hebei xingyiquan (he said that Shanxi xingyiquan is the old method that has 5 elements, 12 animals, and various forms; Hebei was a mixed xingyi-bagua method)
- Half-step ("banbu") mantis should be eight step ("babu") mantis (sounds are pretty similar, hard to understand old Chinese guys...)

I would love to read the new chapter(s) in a bookstore one of these days, but I guess I won't be buying it - what would I do with my old one, after all?

[zenshiite]

The new edition adds a bit about taking the practice of the internal martial arts into the realms of Taoist spirituality. That's pretty much the only addition to it. I have both editions... which reminds me, I need to get to a used book store and sell the old one...

I like the book.

[edededed]

Yeah, it's a good book. I think it's best usage is to get someone interested in internal martial arts (notably baguazhang) - it sure worked in that way for me! (Guess I won't buy the new edition, though...)

[mixjourneyman]

I liked his book, it also got me into bagua and IMA for combat.
Then again, so did a bunch of other books that I also read.

Regarding Qi: I don't think you will find 2 teachers anywhere that will agree exactly on how qi is used.
The paradigm that I was taught places the qi in the extremities when discharging force. To me its more of a mental thing than an actual physical manifestation of qi from the dan tien/meridians etc....

I think one thing that most IMA'ists can agree on is that somatic work to develop sensitivity and power is extremely important to the practice of these arts.

[baguamen22]

My own experience was that practice gave me skill, not the words describing the practice.

Great quote!

[Bao]

Regarding Qi: I don't think you will find 2 teachers anywhere that will agree exactly on how qi is used.

I think most teachers who know anything about IMA and chinese thought will agree exactly on how qi is used. It is what people will call qi which is different. Some people use a very narrow, specified meaning and some people (most western people without knowledge in chinese or chinese people who express themselves badly in foreign languages) will call anything qi.

The paradigm that I was taught places the qi in the extremities when discharging force.

This is exactly the kind of intellectual bs that piss me off. How exactly, in an exact practical and physical meaning, do you actual do this?

[mixjourneyman]

Wow, I forgot why I stopped posting here.

Let me wade in anyways:

1: Qi: I've seen lots of different Chinese and non Chinese teachers talking about qi in a number of different fashions to suit their teaching styles. The broad definition of Qi contains many different meanings. Qi is a somewhat ambiguous term that can include a lot of different stuff.

2: bringing qi to the extremities: its pretty easy, you imagine its there and it makes your punch stronger.
I'm not saying its magical qi blasts or anything. Its an expression of the body's ability to generate power through practice of somatic awareness, which is directed to the extremity when you do your forms practice. Of course it only applies to arts that use obvious power, like xingyi etc....

I actually have no specific belief or disbelief in qi, but using my awareness to direct mental force + intention is a huge part of my practice.
I hope that my method of practice doesn't offend you.

[Bao]

Qi is a somewhat ambiguous term that can include a lot of different stuff.

Exactly. A chinese can have more distance to this and interprete the term according to the wish of his teacher. But a western practitioner is lost if the teacher is not very careful about how he use this term.

2: bringing qi to the extremities: its pretty easy, you imagine its there and it makes your punch stronger.
I'm not saying its magical qi blasts or anything. Its an expression of the body's ability to generate power through practice of somatic awareness, which is directed to the extremity when you do your forms practice. Of course it only applies to arts that use obvious power, like xingyi etc....

What you speak about is concentration and body awareness. If you concentrate and try to feel what you do, you will do it better. This is about a scientifically explained function of the nervous system. You don't need to develop any "qi" or even heard about it. It will work with whatever you do. But what you call this is up to you.

I hope that my method of practice doesn't offend you.

Not at all, and I know absolutely nothing about how you practice, and only what you write about.

[mixjourneyman]

The point is that I was specifically taught this by my teacher under the umbrella of Qi.
I maintain this tradition (whether or not I even choose to believe in Qi as anything other than a somatic function).
I think scientific explanations are great, but the Chinese explanations are also helpful in contextualizing one's practice.
Take what is good from both.

[Bär]

The English word 'energy' is just as broad. People get clouded by Kung Fu movie/'Hollywood' definitions rather than what an instructor is actually saying or trying to convey. 'Chi' does not mean 'magic.' Get over it and move on.

[qiphlow]

there's a great book called a brief history of qi. the author is trying to pin down exactly what the meaning of qi is. suffice it to say that qi means a SHITLOAD of different things.
but y'all knew that already.

[Buddy]

I'm fairly certain I can hit pretty hard, qi or no qi. My belief or non-belief in it makes no difference. To me it is far more important to focus on yi...whatever that means.

[chud]

I happen to believe in the chi paradigm, and I think it's good that many teachers talk about it to their students. Even if I am not totally "chi aware" yet, hearing people talk about it has helped me to accept and understand some of the transformative feelings that I have felt in my body over the last few years since I started practicing IMA.

[Repulsive Monkey]

POwer without muscular tension? Definitely.