JIBEN ZISHI 基 本 姿 勢 OF YANG (楊) STYLE TAIJI QUAN

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

JIBEN ZISHI 基 本 姿 勢 OF YANG (楊) STYLE TAIJI QUAN

Postby neijia_boxer on Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:18 pm

No not steal the thunder of Hein's article, it is here on Facebook. Posting it since it is not public and you have to join the Facebook group, "The Kwoon".

http://www.facebook.com/groups/TheKwoon ... 969359450/

Hein Drop writes:

THE BASIC POSTURES (JIBEN ZISHI 基 本 姿 勢) OF YANG (楊) STYLE TAIJI QUAN

The beginning student in traditional Taiji Quan was first supposed to master a set of Basic Exercises (Jiben Gong 基 本 功) and Basic Postures (Jiben Zishi 基 本 姿 勢), before moving on to the practice of the Routine or Set (Taolu 套 路).

Now Basic Postures are postures taking out of the Routine and practiced in isolation. For example one can take the ‘Brush Knee, Twist Step’ posture and practice it repeatedly, alternating left and right. Or repeating the left form (or right form) in one movement ad infinitum.

The aim of training the Basic Postures is, according to Y. K. Chen (1979), that “to enable the beginner to know, understand, and learn Taiji Quan easily, the important and repeated movements of the course [i.e. Routine] are picked out as separate exercises …” Master Yang Jwing-Ming (1982) states: “The fundamental drills [i.e. Basic Exercises and Basic Postures] were constructed so that they could be easily coordinated with the inhalation and exhalation of deep breathing. While the easily performed fundamental drills include martial techniques, they help the beginner develop Taoist breathing because they are simple in form; the novice can practice deep breathing instead of concentrating his mind on remembering the correct outer form.” In another book (1987) Master Yang states that “after you have worked for a while on circulating your Qi with the [Qi Coiling] exercises, you should start practicing individual forms from the sequence.” And “individual forms should be practiced repeatedly, emphasizing root, stability, and balancing the Qi (氣).” Finally, Nigel Sutton (1991) writes: “In ‘Cheng Man Ching’ Taiji Quan there are five important movements, each of which exemplifies a particular movement pattern or application of power.”

So these Basic Postures are: a) helpful in introducing the beginner to the art; b) helpful in coordinating breathing and movement; and c) more important than the other postures in the routine because of their special features.

Below I will look at the Basic Postures from all these three teachers to see what kind of exercises they have come up with. Although Chen calls them ‘preliminary exercises’ and Master Yang ‘fundamental moving drills,’ in Chinese they are usually called Basic Postures (Jiben Zishi 基 本 姿 勢 or Gongjia 功 架), to distinguish them as a category from Basic Exercises (Jiben Gong 基 本 功), such as Qi Gong (氣 功) or Zhuang Gong (樁 功).

Y. K. Chen’s “Preliminary Exercises” for the Yang Style 108-Postures Routine:
• (1-6) Grasp Bird’s Tail (Lan Quewei 攬 雀 尾)
• (7) Single Whip (Dan Bian 單 鞭)
• (8) Raise Hands and Step Up (Tishou Shangshi 提 手 上 勢)
• (9) Stork Cools Its Wings (Baihe Liangchi 白 鶴 亮 翅)
• (10/12) Brush Knee and Twist Step (Louxi Aobu 摟 膝 拗 步)
• (11) Play the Fiddle (Shouhui Pipa 手 揮 琵 琶)
• (13) Deflect Downward, Parry, and Punch (Ban Lan Chui 搬 攔 捶)
• (14/15) Step Back and Repulse Monkey (Daonianhou 到 攆 猴)
• (16) Slanting Flying (Xiefeishi 斜 飛 式)
• (17) Fan Through the Back (Shantongbei 扇 通 背)
• (18) Wave Hands Like Clouds (Yunshou 雲 手)
• (19) Snake Creeps Down (Sheshen Xiashi 蛇 身 下 勢)
(The numbers are as given to the exercises by Y. K. Chen.)

Master Yang Jwing-Ming’s “Fundamental Moving Drills” for the Yang Style 113-Posture Routine:
1. Step on Kick [Chai Twe ?]
2. Wild Horses Share the Mane [Yema Fenzong 野 馬 分 鬃]
3. Circle Punch [Pieshenchui 撇 身 捶]
4. Repulse the Monkey [Daonianhou 到 攆 猴]
5. Left-Right Kick [Zuoyou Fenjiao 左 右 分 腳]
(Master Yang does not provide the Chinese characters so I added them for clarity.)

Elsewhere Master Yang mentions the following forms which should be practiced individually:
• Wardoff, Rollback, Press and Push
• Brush Knee and Step Forward [Louxi Aobu 摟 膝 拗 步]
• Diagonal Flying [Xiefeishi 斜 飛 式]
• Wave Hands in Clouds [Yunshou 雲 手]
• Step Back and Repulse Monkey [Daonianhou 到 攆 猴]
• Step Forward, Deflect Downward, Parry and Punch [Jinbu Ban Lan Chui 進 步 搬 攔 捶]

Nigel Sutton’s “Five Animals of Tai Chi Chuan” (Wu Xing 五 形 = Five Forms) for the Yang Style 37-Posture Routine:
1. Brush Knee Twist Step [Louxi Aobu 摟 膝 拗 步 = the Tiger 虎 hu]
2. White Crane Spreads Wings [Baihe Liangchi 白 鶴 亮 翅 = the Bird 鶴 he]
3. Step Back Repulse Monkey [Daonianhou 到 攆 猴 = the Ape 猴 hou]
4. Diagonal Flying [Xiefeishi 斜 飛 式 = the Stag 鹿 lu]
5. Cloud Hands [Yunshou 雲 手 = the Bear 熊 xiong]
(These five animals are from the famous physician Hua Tuo’s 華 佗 ‘Five-Animals Play’ Wu Qin Xi 五 禽 戲, a two-thousand year old health practice.)

Last but not least, Robert Smith (1974) makes a very intriguing remark about Grandmaster Yang Chengfu (楊 澄 甫): “During training he [Yang Chengfu] practiced the Single Whip for expansive power and Play the Guitar for contractive power, holding each statically for lengthy periods. He also moved repeatedly through Step Back and Repulse the Monkey (for moving the Qi up past the sacrum) and Step Forward, Deflect Downward, Parry and Punch.” So, schematically:
1. Single Whip [Dan Bian 單 鞭 = Kaizhan Gong 開 展 功, a type of Zhuang Gong]
2. Play the Guitar [Shouhui Pipa 手 揮 琵 琶 = Jincou Gong 緊 湊 功, a type of Zhuang Gong]
3. Step Back and Repulse the Monkey [Daonianhou 到 攆 猴]
4. Step Forward, Deflect Downward, Parry, and Punch [Jinbu Ban Lan Chui 進 步 搬 攔 捶]

Significantly, some postures are mentioned again and again, like ‘Cloud Hands’ and ‘Brush Knee and Twist Step.’ But only ‘Step Back and Repulse Monkey’ is in everyone’s list.

So what to practice? I would suggest that simply depends on: a) to which school you belong, b) to the preferences of your teacher, and c) in the end, on your own gut feeling. What doesn’t make sense is to simply add the above lists up with the idea of ‘better safe than sorry’ and practice as much different postures as possible. Start with the favorite postures of your teacher, and later develop a taste of your own. My personal favorite is ‘Brush Knee, Twist Step,’ both without stepping or with stepping, and both using large expansive circles (kaizhan 開 展) or small contractive circles (jincou 緊 湊). You can also combine ‘Brush Knee’ with ‘Play the Guitar,’ as in the Routine (and suggested by Y. K. Chen), and alternate between them over and over. Anyway, pick your own favorite posture and get to work!
neijia_boxer

 

Re: JIBEN ZISHI 基 本 姿 勢 OF YANG (楊) STYLE TAIJI QUAN

Postby D_Glenn on Thu Jul 16, 2015 6:09 am

neijia_boxer wrote:Last but not least, Robert Smith (1974) makes a very intriguing remark about Grandmaster Yang Chengfu (楊 澄 甫): “During training he [Yang Chengfu] practiced the Single Whip for expansive power and Play the Guitar for contractive power, holding each statically for lengthy periods. He also moved repeatedly through Step Back and Repulse the Monkey (for moving the Qi up past the sacrum) and Step Forward, Deflect Downward, Parry and Punch.” So, schematically:
1. Single Whip [Dan Bian 單 鞭 = Kaizhan Gong 開 展 功, a type of Zhuang Gong]
2. Play the Guitar [Shouhui Pipa 手 揮 琵 琶 = Jincou Gong 緊 湊 功, a type of Zhuang Gong]
3. Step Back and Repulse the Monkey [Daonianhou 到 攆 猴]
4. Step Forward, Deflect Downward, Parry, and Punch [Jinbu Ban Lan Chui 進 步 搬 攔 捶]

Kaizhan Gong 開 展 功 = Open Extended
Jincou Gong 緊 湊 功 = Taut/tight Gathered together/collected

.
Last edited by D_Glenn on Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:12 am, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
D_Glenn
Great Old One
 
Posts: 5355
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 4:04 pm
Location: Denver Colorado

Re: JIBEN ZISHI 基 本 姿 勢 OF YANG (楊) STYLE TAIJI QUAN

Postby Bao on Thu Jul 16, 2015 7:32 am

So what to practice? I would suggest that simply depends on: a) to which school you belong, b) to the preferences of your teacher, and c) in the end, on your own gut feeling. What doesn’t make sense is to simply add the above lists up with the idea of ‘better safe than sorry’ and practice as much different postures as possible. Start with the favorite postures of your teacher, and later develop a taste of your own. My personal favorite is ‘Brush Knee, Twist Step,’ both without stepping or with stepping, and both using large expansive circles (kaizhan 開 展) or small contractive circles (jincou 緊 湊). You can also combine ‘Brush Knee’ with ‘Play the Guitar,’ as in the Routine (and suggested by Y. K. Chen), and alternate between them over and over. Anyway, pick your own favorite posture and get to work!


We usually study one movement from a form and try to work in similar ways as well. We have other movements and drills as well that are not in the long forms, but can be played with and developed in different ways.

One of my tai chi teachers only learned five movements from his teacher for the first two years. Two of the movements can be found in a tai chi form. He needed to learn the tai chi shenfa from these movements and also to use only those five movements to defend himself from any kind of attack. This is IMHO a good way to learn to not complicate the art too much, keeping it simple and rely on basic movements. The rest is refinement and variations. But in it's essence, it's not a such complicated art.
Thoughts on Tai Chi (My Tai Chi blog)
- Storms make oaks take deeper root. -George Herbert
- To affect the quality of the day, is the highest of all arts! -Walden Thoreau
Bao
Great Old One
 
Posts: 9059
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: High up north

Re: JIBEN ZISHI 基 本 姿 勢 OF YANG (楊) STYLE TAIJI QUAN

Postby D_Glenn on Thu Jul 16, 2015 7:54 am

Bao wrote:
So what to practice? I would suggest that simply depends on: a) to which school you belong, b) to the preferences of your teacher, and c) in the end, on your own gut feeling. What doesn’t make sense is to simply add the above lists up with the idea of ‘better safe than sorry’ and practice as much different postures as possible. Start with the favorite postures of your teacher, and later develop a taste of your own. My personal favorite is ‘Brush Knee, Twist Step,’ both without stepping or with stepping, and both using large expansive circles (kaizhan 開 展) or small contractive circles (jincou 緊 湊). You can also combine ‘Brush Knee’ with ‘Play the Guitar,’ as in the Routine (and suggested by Y. K. Chen), and alternate between them over and over. Anyway, pick your own favorite posture and get to work!


We usually study one movement from a form and try to work in similar ways as well. We have other movements and drills as well that are not in the long forms, but can be played with and developed in different ways.

One of my tai chi teachers only learned five movements from his teacher for the first two years. Two of the movements can be found in a tai chi form. He needed to learn the tai chi shenfa from these movements and also to use only those five movements to defend himself from any kind of attack. This is IMHO a good way to learn to not complicate the art too much, keeping it simple and rely on basic movements. The rest is refinement and variations. But in it's essence, it's not a such complicated art.

You of all people should know that "large expansive circles" and "small contractive circles" are piss-poor translations for kaizhan 開 展 and jincou 緊 湊 !

kaizhan 開 展 and jincou 緊 湊 are different kinds of Isometric strengths.

You have to seek, find, feel and develop a lot of strength in the Zhuang practices, so that when it comes time to apply you don't have to "use strength", it's intrinsic, and you can truly be effortless.

It takes a lot of Effort in Zhuang practices, in order to feel Effortless in a fight.

.
User avatar
D_Glenn
Great Old One
 
Posts: 5355
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 4:04 pm
Location: Denver Colorado

Re: JIBEN ZISHI 基 本 姿 勢 OF YANG (楊) STYLE TAIJI QUAN

Postby Bao on Thu Jul 16, 2015 8:07 am

D_Glenn wrote:You of all people should know that "large expansive circles" and "small contractive circles" are piss-poor translations for kaizhan 開 展 and jincou 緊 湊 !

kaizhan 開 展 and jincou 緊 湊 are different kinds of Isometric strengths.

You have to seek, find, feel and develop a lot of strength in the Zhuang practices, so that when it comes time to apply you don't have to "use strength", it's intrinsic, and you can truly be effortless.

It takes a lot of Effort in Zhuang practices, in order to feel Effortless in a fight.

.


I didn't comment the translation of the words. I commented the manner to play and explore different movements in the form. This thread is about JIBEN ZISHI, I don't give a damn how neija_boxer interpretes or understand the characters.

But good for you I guess... Now you can go on and write another article on the absolute true meaning of these terms. From a bagua perspective of course. 8-)

Sincerely though Glenn, and jokes aside. I do enjoy the very most of your writings here and I do hope you continue with it. :)

Cheers!
David
Last edited by Bao on Thu Jul 16, 2015 8:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
Thoughts on Tai Chi (My Tai Chi blog)
- Storms make oaks take deeper root. -George Herbert
- To affect the quality of the day, is the highest of all arts! -Walden Thoreau
Bao
Great Old One
 
Posts: 9059
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: High up north

Re: JIBEN ZISHI 基 本 姿 勢 OF YANG (楊) STYLE TAIJI QUAN

Postby shawnsegler on Thu Jul 16, 2015 8:24 am

S- cracks beer and puts up feet.
I prefer
You behind the wheel
And me the passenger
User avatar
shawnsegler
Great Old One
 
Posts: 6423
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 12:26 pm
Location: The center of things.

Re: JIBEN ZISHI 基 本 姿 勢 OF YANG (楊) STYLE TAIJI QUAN

Postby lazyboxer on Thu Jul 16, 2015 8:28 am

shawnsegler wrote:S- cracks beer and puts up feet.

So when do you ever find time for training? :P :D
Living well is the best revenge.
User avatar
lazyboxer
Great Old One
 
Posts: 1029
Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 3:22 pm

Re: JIBEN ZISHI 基 本 姿 勢 OF YANG (楊) STYLE TAIJI QUAN

Postby D_Glenn on Thu Jul 16, 2015 8:53 am

Bao wrote:I didn't comment the translation of the words. I commented the manner to play and explore different movements in the form. This thread is about JIBEN ZISHI, I don't give a damn how neija_boxer interpretes or understand the characters.

Actually that should be 'Not giving a Damn about Hein's interpretation and understanding', Neijia_boxer only quoted him.

Bao wrote:But good for you I guess... Now you can go on and write another article on the absolute true meaning of these terms. From a bagua perspective of course.

Actually it comes from 心意六合拳 XYLHQ. Which is based on the Eagle (鷹 Ying) and the Bear (熊 Xiong) which is symbolic of 英雄 Yingxiong (Hero). The Eagle is 開展 Kaizhan (open and extended) while the bear is 緊湊 (Taut and compact). But the exact/precise intricacies of the isometric tensions isn't something you can learn from looking. You have to feel the body of your teacher and be able to hear the explanations.

Apparently these same isometrics also still exist in the Yang Chengfu lineage.

Sorry no Bagua today. :(

.
Last edited by D_Glenn on Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
One part moves, every part moves; One part stops, every part stops.

YSB Internal Chinese Martial Arts Youtube
User avatar
D_Glenn
Great Old One
 
Posts: 5355
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 4:04 pm
Location: Denver Colorado

Re: JIBEN ZISHI 基 本 姿 勢 OF YANG (楊) STYLE TAIJI QUAN

Postby D_Glenn on Thu Jul 16, 2015 8:57 am

lazyboxer wrote:
shawnsegler wrote:S- cracks beer and puts up feet.

So when do you ever find time for training? :P :D

Plus it's like 8 in the morning on the West coast.

Mmmmm... Beer. -drink-

.
User avatar
D_Glenn
Great Old One
 
Posts: 5355
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 4:04 pm
Location: Denver Colorado

Re: JIBEN ZISHI 基 本 姿 勢 OF YANG (楊) STYLE TAIJI QUAN

Postby wayne hansen on Thu Jul 16, 2015 3:26 pm

The cmc 5 animal form I learnt differs to Nigel's
GST replaces white stork for crane
However all movements are done in a different manner to the solo form
It also includes the 5 leg manouvers of tai chi
The five elements of hsing I
One thing we practice is walking forms without the hands of which we have several
Next we include the hands
Brush knee
Repulse monkey
Cloud hands left and right directions
Wild horse flings it's mane
GST
I have also added fair lady both to the 4 corners and like hsing I fire
Along with standing exercises this is all done before forms are taught
And expected to be practiced after learning forms
Don't put power into the form let it naturally arise from the form
wayne hansen
Wuji
 
Posts: 5850
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:52 pm

Re: JIBEN ZISHI 基 本 姿 勢 OF YANG (楊) STYLE TAIJI QUAN

Postby D_Glenn on Fri Jul 17, 2015 6:35 am

So the thread is about Standing Postures (姿势 Zishi) before doing Forms (套路 Taolu).

And Yang Chengfu did the postures while holding the muscles in different isometric configurations.

There is some (at least one) direct student(s) of Yang Chengfu who still teaches this way but I was wondering if anyone on RSF does the same?

Anyone?

.
User avatar
D_Glenn
Great Old One
 
Posts: 5355
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 4:04 pm
Location: Denver Colorado

Re: JIBEN ZISHI 基 本 姿 勢 OF YANG (楊) STYLE TAIJI QUAN

Postby shawnsegler on Fri Jul 17, 2015 10:37 am

lazyboxer wrote:
shawnsegler wrote:S- cracks beer and puts up feet.

So when do you ever find time for training? :P :D


It's a turn of phrase meaning something like "ah, now things get interesting. I'll kick back and enjoy myself watching where this goes."

D Glenn- While I've been known to have a morning beer, I haven't for a very long time. I have an 11 year old son and I don't want to teach him those sorts of bad habits...so, see above.

Cheers!

S

edit: P.S. I'm actually off to train right now. I get about 6 hours a week in class and generally at least an hour a day, although I try for more I have the aforementioned kid and numerous other responsibility's that make living the full on kung-fu lifestyle a little more intermittent than I'd like. Like everything in life, it's cyclical. Getting in the hour a day is, I think, a rock bottom amount for keeping anything like skill together. IME.
Last edited by shawnsegler on Fri Jul 17, 2015 10:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
I prefer
You behind the wheel
And me the passenger
User avatar
shawnsegler
Great Old One
 
Posts: 6423
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 12:26 pm
Location: The center of things.


Return to Xingyiquan - Baguazhang - Taijiquan

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Trick and 111 guests