Cheng YeuXin 64 palms, names of the movements?

[mixjourneyman]

Hi all.
Does anyone have a list in English of Cheng Yeuxin's 64 circular palms?

How about Liu Dekuan's linear?

I'm looking to compile lists of the forms in the system of bagua that I study.
My teacher talked to Liu Jingru about the names of the palms, but he is having a hard time translating them into English (since some of the Chinese words don't have exact parallels in English), but I figured that someone probably has made a list somewhere.

Best

J

[edededed]

Well, might be possible to make a list (I have Chinese lists for both).

Liu Dekuan's set has slight differences in naming depending on who recorded it, though. (For example, the first movement: "advancing step raising palm" or "advancing step raising hit.")

[edededed]

Oh - and it's "Cheng Youxin"

[JoseFreitas]

Advancing step raising palm? I thought it was Laosan tuobu, an old monk presents bowl?



Couldn't resist, you know?

[edededed]

"Laosentuobu" would be one name for the preparatory stance before the first movement.

[mixjourneyman]

Ours is a bit different too, since we don't have old monk presents the bowl.
Next time I have access to a video camera I'll put up the linear set from Cheng Youxin's line.

[Hunupa]

Here are Liu De Kuan's 64 per Beijing Gao Style

LIU SHI SI SHOU - 64 FORMS
Start: The Old Monk Holds Up the Alms Bowl
SECTION 1
1. Step In & Use the Upward Tossing Palm 2. The Lion Shakes Its Head
3. Entwining (Coiling) Hand & Rolling Palm 4.The Tiger Crouches & Leaps across
the Ravine 5.Striking From Under the Elbow 6. Turn over the Arm & Split 7.Double
Whip Press the Elbow 8. Step In & Intercept With the Cutting Elbow
SECTION 2
1. Green Dragon Tests Its Claws 2.Brushing the Sleeves (Striking Continuously)
3.The Dragon in the Clouds Reveals Its Claws 4.Disperse the Clouds & Look at the
Sun 5.Slap the Chest & Strike the Elbows 6. Turn Around & Push Up With the Elbow
7. Smash the Ears with a Piercing Strike 8. The Malevolent Tiger Tears Out the
Heart
SECTION 3
1. Step in Surround & Smash with the Palms 2.White Ape (Gibbon)
Offers the Peaches 3.Turn like A Windmill & Reverse Elbow Strike 4.The Immortal
Watches the Chess Game 5.Gold Silk Brushes the Eyebrows 6.The Jade Lady Works the
Shuttle 7.Stepping Backward & Leading The Sheep 8.The Hegemon King Sends off His
Guest
SECTION 4
1. Departing Horse Turns Back 2.The Two Immortals Preach the Tao
3.Turn & Smash With A Splitting Fist 4.The Wild Horse Crashes into the Manger
5. The Great Roc Spreads Its Wings 6. Cutting Grass (with a long-hinged sickle)In
one’s White Robes 7. Zhou Chang Shoulders the Broadsword 8. Liu Chuan Offers the
Melon
SECTION 5
1. Escape & Become A Shadow 2. Pluck with the Hand & Stamp One's
Chop (Seal)3. Advance To Strike (Bump) The Enemy 4.Confront Face & Spring Kick to
the Knee 5. Covering the Ear with a Single Strike 6. Turn over The Arm & Striking
7. King Of Heaven Uplifts The Pagoda 8. The Queen of Heaven Winds the Thread
SECTION 6
1. Ten Ton Weight Falls To the Ground 2.The Sun And Moon Advance Together 3.
Golden Cicada Sheds Its Skin 4. Leaning against the Mountain (& Squeeze) 5. Plucking
With the Hand & Bump with the Knee 6. Lazy Dragon Curled Up on a Pillow 7. Striking
Upward With the Leading Hand 8. Advance & Strike with a Wrecking Palm
SECTION 7
1.Inserting the Flowers under the Armpit 2. Red Phoenix Enters the Nest 3. Kick to
The Outside and Break the Leg 4. Cover the Elbow & Push the Mountain 5. Wrapping
the Elbow & Swinging the Lotus 6. Turn Around and Beating the Waist (Like A Drum)
7. The Ape Climbs the Pole 8. Drawing the Bow & Shooting the Tiger
SECTION 8
1.Four Dragons Draw Water 2. Embracing the Moon in the Breast 3. The Immortal Sifts
Rice 4. The Hand Plucks & Plays with the Pearls 5. Zhang Fei Wins A Horse by Trickery
6. Revolving Hands Hit Two Doors (Slice Two Gates) 7. Windmill Chopping Palms 8.
Lone Goose Leaves the Flock

[JoseFreitas]

So, we're now compiling two sets names: Cheng Youxin's 64 Palms (ie. circular palm changes set) - by the way, is this the set referred to as Cheng style 64 Circle Walking Palms, or are there other Cheng style sets of 64 - and Liu Dekuan's 64 Palms (ie. linear set).

I think I can post Liu Dekuan's names from my end, they're slightly different from the ones you show. I need to look at my videos. I'll see if I can do it later this afternoon.

[mixjourneyman]

So, we're now compiling two sets names: Cheng Youxin's 64 Palms (ie. circular palm changes set) - by the way, is this the set referred to as Cheng style 64 Circle Walking Palms, or are there other Cheng style sets of 64 - and Liu Dekuan's 64 Palms (ie. linear set).

I think I can post Liu Dekuan's names from my end, they're slightly different from the ones you show. I need to look at my videos. I'll see if I can do it later this afternoon.

Hey Jose, there are two 64 sets in Cheng style coming from Cheng Youxin. One is the circular 64 and the other is the linear.
The linear comes form Liu Dekuan, but was modified by Cheng Youxin and possibly others.

[JoseFreitas]

OK. I knew there were many variations of Liu Dekuan's set. It's in Liang Zhen Pu lineage, Wang Pei Sheng's, etc... So there is only one set of 64 Circular Palms in Cheng, but there may be variations on how it's done in various schools and lineages, right?

[mixjourneyman]

OK. I knew there were many variations of Liu Dekuan's set. It's in Liang Zhen Pu lineage, Wang Pei Sheng's, etc... So there is only one set of 64 Circular Palms in Cheng, but there may be variations on how it's done in various schools and lineages, right?

The set of 64 postures is actually a bit of a misnomer. Firstly, the set has sixty four separate movements that can be practiced and drilled on their own. Each movement is an abstraction of a big palm, so single palm has eight movements, double palm, back body palm etc... all have eight movements each. The movements range in length from 2 or three individual movements to 7 or 8.
My teacher said that he thought that Cheng Youxin probably did not invent the whole set, but that it would have been built up by other people in the same generation and the generation after him. He also said that Cheng Youlong helped create the routine.
When considering all this, its also important to take Sun Zhijun's 24 routine into consideration. That Routine has sixty four movements that can all be broken down into individual drills to, so its possible that the 64 and 24 have some points that cross over.
Another important point is that the 64 is different among different groups. I think the postures still have the same names, but the actual movements are different.
The 64 that I do has parts that seem like it's based on Cheng Youxin's bagua and parts that are like Cheng Youlong's style.
Which leads me to believe even more that different people than just Cheng Youxin helped to make the routine (then again, my teacher's teacher, Fu Shubo studied with both Youxin and You Long, so that could be the reason).
Since the eight big palms are so different among various Cheng style groups, I would imagine that there is a lot of variation in the way that the 64 palms are practiced.