Traditional Internal training-does it transfer to MMA

[Ian]

JW=>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>than Ian

If it's me you're talking about, then yes I agree!

[kreese]

Tom,

You are right, it is not really useful to pigeon-hole training methods. I know what I mean with the words I choose, but they are very loaded words and may mean something completely different to someone else. I think I was responding after Shawn's post but it ended up posting well after the fact. To be honest I have no idea what Dan does. I hope to train with him some day--as he has been well-received by those that have met him--but at this point I don't even know when I'll be back in the US.

[kreese]

Ok, I was just too tired to make my point clearly, but you made it for me I had a flash of insight, among many, when I joined just one of Tim Cartmell's 2 hour classes. I refer to this experience often because I get a lot from the "in between" moments of being with a great teacher, not just the actual class materials. Tim is in great shape, but he moves softly and deliberately. It's the same with the Systema conditioning methods. Apply your [one's] internal attributes to *all* movements, even the ones that makes you sweat and breathe harder than doing a taiji form. "Soft" training and "hard" training become one. There really is no distinction if your goal is to prepare for self-defense. In this way, there is no reason why internal training can't transfer to MMA. We just have to match the intensity of that training and it wouldn't hurt to taste what other people are doing and are capable to doing. Just my opinion. I don't mean to sound preachy, just fairly clear about what I personally believe at this time.

Taiwan is good right now because I am able to study, work, and train what I love. I do miss the US, or maybe I just miss red wine.

[Bodywork]

Hi Tom
I guess I have a different idea of soft and hard, or maye the same idunno, -here's what I think
I guess I would characterize what I do as soft training in the sense that it requires standing practice, and chi gongs as most would call them, to connect the body in specific ways. Then moving energy through the body with a balance of opposing energies while moving-done in solo exercises. Then, on to moving against force doing the same things you practiced alone while maintaining a balance of forces within you. With the sole intent of maintaining these forces in lue of your opponent being able to break the connections. Your body begins moves through a range of resistive forces while maintaining its central balance undisturbed. The effect of this initial training creates any manner of effects on an opponent putting energy into you trying to throw you or strike you; sticky drawing-in, cancellations of forces, as the may happen from your opponent, on to your own choices to move from power moves to throw, with the ability to transfer substantial weight without dedicating it. Due to the connections being created within the body the ability to strike (which I agree seems extremely hard and sharp) is actually extremely soft in feel inside the one doing it. More important is later training where a soft body feels and moves forces, senses and displaces directed force without needing to do whole hell of a lot to do so. IMO most MAers carry their weight in dedicated one side moves that expose them to throws and counters, and the way they hit- in a boxing style or MT style- makes them more open for takedowns. Anyway, to clarify I consider the training method very soft in application, mentally hard to do-even exhausting, then physically difficult to hold the focus of connections together. However those same connections produce a feel in the body like hard rubber in motion or sharp angular attacks in feel, but all recognizably soft-even to a few ICMA masters who commented on my "feel."
Where that interacts with rolling and banging is still not "hard" to me, even though it can be strenouos when we go out to varous other places to play or have people come here. Never do we change what we are doing on the inside, yet muscle driven grapplers frequesntly comment on how "hard" or strong we feel, as they can't see or understand what that "feel" is from.
We have had fun playing with other grapplers from all different arts. It is for this reason that I was looking for similar types training in ICMA but more importantly men who can do more than talk about it, but actually be able to deliver and use what they know against serious resistance, and how they felt about a universal tie-in to grappling. I would find the methods they were using, and their understanding of them in use very interesting. I really wasn't intending to talk and share an understanding with a guy who trains solo in his garage and what he thinks of say, the use of taiji in grappling.
I know there are more of me out there; I am hoping to be able to meet some. If not, then at least talk with some who are interested in the same ideas in pursuits of their own training. I'm not interested in arguing with people who doubt there is a tie-in potential, more in sharing with like minded men.

[Bodywork]

I don't mean to sound preachy, just fairly clear about what I personally believe at this time.

Somehow I think your opinion will last longer than John McCain's about the fundamentals of the American economy remaining strong (approximately 3 hours on September 15). That could be because your opinion is based on real experience and sound insight.

Actually I agree with McCains unedited answer. Made perfect sense to me. Now if we can get that fundemental of the American economy, innovations and sound work ethic and ability to work on a new "Energy revolution" instead of an industrial revoluion we'd be doing something.

I take those edited bits to make anyone sound absurd all in stride. It was like acussing Obama of calling Palin a pig. He didn't mean it that way-it just made a good sound bite.
Oops, the thread drift buzzer just went off. Get off the button Tom....Tom....TOMMMM!! ah he fell asleep on the buzzer again.

[Dmitri]

Dan check your PM please.
Thanks.

[H2O_Dragon]

I miss JW. He brought balance to the force.

I bet if JW and Larry came back we could get Meynard talking again and produce some real dynamic tension up in this bitch.

S- sad for the old days sometimes

Wow, you really did summon me! By the Power of Greyskull and all that Jazz.

[shawnsegler]

I totally did.

S- jedi/wizard person

[H2O_Dragon]

That's kinda scary. It's almost like we're star crossed lovers, except we've never met; and I like innies, not outties.

[nianfong]

careful larry, I remember believe you were learning BJJ last time you were on the board
welcome back my friend

[H2O_Dragon]

Yup, Went from the Tai Chi and Shuai Chiao to the MMA crowd. Did BJJ, Muay Thai, and Boxing with Miguel Torres for a few years. Now I'm a Judo brown belt under Rene Zeelenberg in San Antonio. Guy's a Shichidan in Judo, and was a top international competitor back in the '70's. I'm starting the internals again due to health problems. Teaching my girl Tui Shou, she's starting to see the idea.