Tai Chi for health

[klonk]

i also like to try to understand the martial focus of the movements, why it is at heart a martial art.

That is the position a great many tjq practitioners worldwide find themselves in--wondering about the martial part. I think the martial usage part validates and confirms the angles and body forces involved in the movements, much as some actual experience with nails would help you understand the function of a hammer. So I have found it very frustrating that so few people are willing to offer me a clue on this part--either not having one to share, or not wanting to...whatever.

Still there is a benefit in the movements themselves, and that is what most of the world taiji community has bought into. Having argued elsewhere for free markets and personal judgment, it would be hypocritical if I said the world taiji for health thing has gotten off on the wrong foot--that taiji consumers did not choose the right thing to buy. Who am I to say?

But what will the movements look like, after a couple generations of non-martial teachers and students who become teachers in turn? Will the movements themselves be recognizable?

But, anyhow, I think it's good that this excellent exercise is so widely known now, not only in China and the East, but much of the West too.

[shawnsegler]

Taichi is all over the place. From the interweb:

LOOKING FOR NUDE YOGA/TAI CHI STUDENTS
MORE STUDENTS WANTED

The Island group resort in Land o lakes fl is still holding nude tai chi and yoga the 1st & 3rd sat of each month.
We've had quite a few turn outs, but only about 8 or so repeat students.
The time is 10 am and runs 1 1/2 - 2 hours.
We have all levels and would like more attendence for more input.
For more info call (727) 808-9725 Hope to hear from you. THE ISLAND GROUP.

[jaime]

While I practice my taiji with a martial spirit, observing the movements and structure for martial viability, the martial power is generated from the same side as the health aspect of the practice. What good is structure when there is no ground on which to anchor it and harness energy from. The health aspect emphasizes relaxing, clearing the mind and focusing it. So while others emphasize the "health" aspect it is from this component that martial taiji comes alive.

2 cents..

[Ron Panunto]

People who do taiji for martial purposes don't ignore the health benefits of doing the form. It health part comes automatically from practicing the martial aspects, i.e., it comes with the territory. However, it doesn't work the other way around. If you just practice the form without knowledge of the applications. then you only get health, and no self defense skills. So why cheat yourself?

[river rider]

The mindful layering of different disciplines within one practice is, IMO, what constitutes a martial artist... if you only do it for fighting you're probably just a fighter, if you just do it for health you're just doing calisthenics... stir fighting, health, meditation, spiritual alchemy, and various other things in the mix with awareness and you are practicing a Martial Art. Of course, this is hard and high level activity, and since it's a MARTIAL art, fighting is the base and can't be skimped on.

[gretel]

The mindful layering of different disciplines within one practice is, IMO, what constitutes a martial artist... if you only do it for fighting you're probably just a fighter, if you just do it for health you're just doing calisthenics... stir fighting, health, meditation, spiritual alchemy, and various other things in the mix with awareness and you are practicing a Martial Art. Of course, this is hard and high level activity, and since it's a MARTIAL art, fighting is the base and can't be skimped on.

i understand this point of view but as klonk said, it's hard to find a teacher who can do this for us students in small towns, etc. Besides, I like the way my teacher teaches. He doesn't teach it, and I don't do it, "just" for health but for all those other things you mention minus the actual fighting. At 72 I may be too old to get banged around much anyhow. Awareness is the key to it all. Taiji for me is really nothing like calisthenics. In the end, taiji is not "for" anything else but itself.

gretel

[qiphlow]

... taiji is not "for" anything else but itself.

folks, this is pure gold.

[JoseFreitas]

I think people who train Taiji as a martial art (ie. with all the fighting stuff in it) are closer to gaining all the health benefits, but I would add that it's possible to miss out on some of the benefits by over-emphasizing push hands or just applications training over softness, slowness and mindffulness. But obviously, you're statistically closer to getting all the health benefits if you're doing Taiji for fighting.

Having said this, I wish people wouldn't diss Taiji for health, or practitioners who train only for the non-martial benefits. They can coexist with the rest of us, frequently under the same teachers. I have nothing but respect for Taiji for Health. Of course, there's a continuum and teachers who do not challenge you physically and mentally are doing students a disservice. Low stances, lots of twisting and coiling, extension and compression and knowing at least the shape of applications will help a lot.

We have a lady in our class who showed up in her early 60's, just after retiring. She has been training for about 7 years and no one would recognize her today. She went from being hardly able to bend her knees to being able to do Snake Creeps Down really low, fully squatting, and so on. She does no other form of exercise. She shows up for classes 4 times a week, does all the forms and qigong exercises and she enjoys us explaining the applications and even does some PH, lightly and softly. Her health is better than it had been in 20 years. She can do all the weapons forms quite well.

There are lots of other stories like this, and if it is true that some of these people would have benefited from any kind of exercise, I also suspect that in many cases there is something to Taiji/Qigong that adds to simple exercise.

[RickMatz]

People who do taiji for martial purposes don't ignore the health benefits of doing the form. It health part comes automatically from practicing the martial aspects, i.e., it comes with the territory. However, it doesn't work the other way around. If you just practice the form without knowledge of the applications. then you only get health, and no self defense skills. So why cheat yourself?

I am fortunate to belong to a school which has a complete system. The health and martial aspects are both there.

[Wu_Style_Disciple]

Check out the articles about the effects of Tai Chi Chuan from a health standpoint at:

http://wustyle.groupit.com/fed/medical_links

Hello everyone, it's been a while since I've been on here. Hope everyone is doing good and training hard.

I've taken a little break from my Taiji training to focus on Muay Thai and family. My son is playing both soccer and football this season so I have very little time to dedicate to training. But in the last month I was training really hard for a fight that unfortunately did not happen because the boxing commission has decided to shut down all smoker fights. Sucks
Anyhow, during the training my body was getting really beat up and exhausted. I found myself doing a little Taiji form after every work out session during the last week of training and it actually helped me a bit. After doing the form my muscles were not in as much pain as the week before and I felt more relaxed. I gotta say as much as I used to hate on those folks who use Taiji for health, I'm starting to believe there is something to it. Ofcourse I know that it is a powerful MA but I think when I go back in a couple of months I want to explore a little more of the meditative and healing side to it.

[cdobe]

Check out the articles about the effects of Tai Chi Chuan from a health standpoint at:

http://wustyle.groupit.com/fed/medical_links

Thank you very much for that link !

CD

PS: In the first article they translate Taichi with "Moving Life Force"

[DeusTrismegistus]

The mindful layering of different disciplines within one practice is, IMO, what constitutes a martial artist... if you only do it for fighting you're probably just a fighter, if you just do it for health you're just doing calisthenics... stir fighting, health, meditation, spiritual alchemy, and various other things in the mix with awareness and you are practicing a Martial Art. Of course, this is hard and high level activity, and since it's a MARTIAL art, fighting is the base and can't be skimped on.

i understand this point of view but as klonk said, it's hard to find a teacher who can do this for us students in small towns, etc. Besides, I like the way my teacher teaches. He doesn't teach it, and I don't do it, "just" for health but for all those other things you mention minus the actual fighting. At 72 I may be too old to get banged around much anyhow. Awareness is the key to it all. Taiji for me is really nothing like calisthenics. In the end, taiji is not "for" anything else but itself.

gretel

You would be surprised at how well you could learn to fight at your age if you are in good health. My teacher had a man reach red belt and he was almost ready for black when he quit coming to class for whatever reason but he was over 70 at red and started in his 60s. I was 15 last time I saw him and he could take anything I could doll out and put me in my place. He wasn't a big man either and I wasn't a complete noob as I started when I was 8.

[gretel]

You would be surprised at how well you could learn to fight at your age if you are in good health. My teacher had a man reach red belt and he was almost ready for black when he quit coming to class for whatever reason but he was over 70 at red and started in his 60s. I was 15 last time I saw him and he could take anything I could doll out and put me in my place. He wasn't a big man either and I wasn't a complete noob as I started when I was 8.

I'm sitting here watching my mind tell me all the reasons why I couldn't do that. Interesting.

gretel

[wkfung108]

I tend to be kind of skeptical of such studies, not because I doubt the health benefits of Taiji, but because I'm not sure doctors/scientists/researchers who do these studies understand that:

In the U.S. Taiji and Yoga (and I suspect, Pilates) are similar in that you have a great many so-called teachers who are pathetically unqualified to teach and have no basic understanding of their respective disciplines.

If you study Taiji from (to use random examples) William C.C. Chen or Ren Guangyi, and then you compare the benefits to what you get if you went to some random yoga class at the Y, I'm (reasonably) sure Taiji would come out to be superior. On the other hand, if you get your yoga from someone who really knows what he/she is doing and compare the benefits to the Taiji being taught at the local McDojo Mall smorgasbord, I'd bet the yoga does a better job of making you healthier.

Also, a lot of the studies that show the benefits of Taiji/Yoga/whatever are comparing the results of people who do Taiji to those who sit on the couch doing an Al Bundy impression. Well, big whoop, of COURSE even bad taiji is going to be better than sitting on your couch with a beer in one hand, the remote in another and a bowl of cheesy poofs in front of you!

- Kent

Any exercise is going to be beneficial. Your muscles felt good because you raised your cardio a bit, hence it helped flush out the lactic acid that has been building up.
I am not sure why people make Taiji (any IMA really) so mysterious. Their is nothing more magical about Taiji then anything else low impact (Pilates / Yoga etc.). It will always help you feel better because you are exercising!

Glad to hear you are feeling better though bro!
Jake

I've actually come across a number a studies showing that Taij practice is superior to both Yoga and Pilates in terms of preventing low injuris (such a from falls for exmple) in seniors.

[Bao]

My teacher has an older woman, a retired one in his class. I think she studied taijiquan with him for about ten years now. I think she was about to retire when she started practicing, so she is well over 70. It was about a year now since I visited my old teacher, but I remember one of the last times when we practiced hitting on those sturdy kicking protections. When my teacher hold it and let that old woman strike. He let her only do that a few times and said somethinglike: "no, you doing to good today, that's enough. I don't know if I can take it if you strike harder than that." She is by all means not the one who strikes hardest in class, but there was no humor in what my teacher said. He was serious and didn't want to take anymore blows from her because it really did hurt thru that protection. The funny thing is that she has a very bad conficence in her taiji and that she really hates violence. . Old people might not be able to develop a lot of muscles, but anyone who is healthy can learn how to use their body as a whole - body mechanics rocks! Damn, old people can really learn how to kick ass with a bit of practice!