Tai Chi for health

[gretel]

very inspiring! thank you very much. i do love to kick and sometimes my teacher lets me kick his punching bag.

gretel

[Martin2]

Hello everybody,

a student of mine (phd in medical research) looked into this topic and wrote a review what western medical research is done on Taichi. We published it in a little journal called "Taichi and Health". One can find and order it here:

http://www.wutaichi.org/book.asp

Greetings and hope you like it

Martin2

[SPJ]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYoBp8i0 ... re=related

something for people has osteoporosis or post menopause women.

[kreese]

According to B.K. Frantzis' book, Wang Shujin was known for taking older people in their 60s and even 70s and turning them into competent fighters. I regularly pushed with some older women at my taiji school and one in particular really taught me a lesson about using softness and about staying vital at an older age. She drove a cherry red Honda Prelude and was just a badass lady in general

Those interested in Taiji research should really check out Dr. Yang Yang (PhD) at http://www.centerfortaiji.com. I assisted a little with the research as a Kinesiology undergrad and one thing we would discuss was the lack of standards in taiji research, particularly in the curriculum used for testing (no standing qigong) and the qualifications of the "master" that taught the participants in the study. I coded some videos of subjects performing taiji, and it was really subjective identifying how well they were performing. I have a good eye for movements, but turning someone else's movements into numbers was not easy. I decided that I wasn't interested in this kind of research after this experience.

[gretel]

something for people has osteoporosis or post menopause women.

we post menopausal women with osteoporosis are going to have to train very seriously to get as low as this lady's snake creeps down or be as balanced for rooster stands on one leg or whatever it's called. not that training hard is a bad thing. although this person makes it look easy, i don't think it would be easy at all to learn. i know i'm not there yet.

gretel

[CaliG]

While I practice my taiji with a martial spirit, observing the movements and structure for martial viability, the martial power is generated from the same side as the health aspect of the practice. What good is structure when there is no ground on which to anchor it and harness energy from. The health aspect emphasizes relaxing, clearing the mind and focusing it. So while others emphasize the "health" aspect it is from this component that martial taiji comes alive.

2 cents..

I agree, if you do taiji martially correct then the health aspects are just there.

To me, the difference between taiji for health and taiji for combat is for combat you have to be very precise, you have to know exactly what you're doing and you have to put in hours and hours of training for a number of years. Basically you have to work to become a "black belt" in taiji.

If your interest is only in health then it isn't necessary to do all the hard work that someone who wants a black belt needs to do, you can just be a white belt, do a slow form, come to class from time to time and train a few minutes a day.

I think it's great that people use taiji for health but I hope others still continue to try to master the complete art for future generations. Because it would be shame if all this knowledge which took generations to develop was lost.

[kreese]

I think the big problem with taiji for health is that it creates the idea that older people cannot push themselves too much. Although I am a young man, I was relatively out of shape when I was concentrating on taiji. When I started learning xingyi and bagua, my fitness improved greatly and I shed excess weight to the tune of 5kg and about 3 inches off my waist. The fact was that I fell into the "internal" trap that made me believe that anything rigorous was bad for me. Hogwash. There are older people participating in all sorts of "external" sports and fitness routines. In terms of what has been shown to increase longevity and decrease the overall risk of mortality, vigorous, intense exercise is the answer. Internal work may be necessary for someone who is deconditioned, but after getting up to a certain level we should push ourselves to even higher levels.

[Ian]

Good points, Dave.

Also, without knowing Juan or anything, I believe that taichi in conjunction with muay thai is better for the body than taichi alone.

I know I feel best when I train until exhaustion and supplement hard training with plenty of rolling, gentle breathing, and tango. If I just did the soft stuff I wouldn't get the same benefits.

[Martin2]

here one more idea to that topic:

I have a lot of martial arts friends (getting old) who do Taichi and do/did other martial arts. Often they can't go on doing martial arts as they did before. This is sad but it is like that. Taijiquan can offer them a fourfold way:

- Body
they still can go on with thier loved martial art, but can fit it to their possibilities. By doing just form or soft pushhands, they can fit it to their special problems. But still they are active with their body so development of other problems is reduced.

- Mind
they are still enjoying the stillness of slow form - they do not have to change to other meditative exercises. So they still have the two in one: movement and stillness

- Social
they can stay in their social groups. In Taijiquan young and old can still train together. Yes, young can go a little bit wilder and more demanding for the body, but still you do not have to leave your group

- Respect
even if the body is not the same as with 20, young students respects even very old people as good teachers. Old teachers have still contact and get respect from young people.

At all (for me) this produce a healthy situation for the whole life and not just for a short time being young.

Of course this is also developed in other martial arts (and sports), but Taijiquan supports it very much.
(hopefully this does not mean just to do old mans Taijiquan, but still integrating young people by offering good training for them as well)

Just a thought - I am now 42 but some people who started with me doing Taijiquan in 1986 are now 66.

Greetings

Martin2

[SPJ]

We post menopausal women with osteoporosis are going to have to train very seriously to get as low as this lady's snake creeps down or be as balanced for rooster stands on one leg or whatever it's called. not that training hard is a bad thing. although this person makes it look easy, i don't think it would be easy at all to learn. i know i'm not there yet.

gretel

agreed. some of the moves may have to be dropped or modified.

We may always start with high stance and then mid stance.

the clip shown is with a low stance.

also we may practice these moves slower and slower--

--

[Bhassler]

According to B.K. Frantzis' book, Wang Shujin was known for taking older people in their 60s and even 70s and turning them into competent fighters. I regularly pushed with some older women at my taiji school and one in particular really taught me a lesson about using softness and about staying vital at an older age. She drove a cherry red Honda Prelude and was just a badass lady in general

Those interested in Taiji research should really check out Dr. Yang Yang (PhD) at http://www.centerfortaiji.com. I assisted a little with the research as a Kinesiology undergrad and one thing we would discuss was the lack of standards in taiji research, particularly in the curriculum used for testing (no standing qigong) and the qualifications of the "master" that taught the participants in the study. I coded some videos of subjects performing taiji, and it was really subjective identifying how well they were performing. I have a good eye for movements, but turning someone else's movements into numbers was not easy. I decided that I wasn't interested in this kind of research after this experience.

I think part of the difficulty with research is that often the wrong people are doing the studies. There are lots of easy clinical studies that could be done in the physical therapy realm that are readily measurable and broadly applicable. My own personal bias is that I dislike the fact that so many taiji studies focus on the elderly and non-happenings like fall prevention (how do you measure what didn't happen?). That said, I'm a big fan of what Dr. Yang is doing, and sincerely hope it is the beginning of many more taiji studies done with competent instruction and scientific rigor.

[D_Glenn]

"I know I feel best when I train until exhaustion..."

There's a chinese saying that John W. had mentioned one time, it's something like "If you walk 2 hours to your practice, you still need to have enough energy to walk 2 hours back home."

----

In the body we have the root of energy in the kidneys, the yin part of the kidney is like the oil that provides the fuel for the yang part which is the flame. Yin is the fluid-like substances in the body, EFA's, lubricating fluids around the joints etc. as we age the yin diminishes and we dry up from the inside and once the oil/fuel is gone the flame goes out. We need to preserve the yin oil but without heat and movement it will become stagnant and congeal and crystallize, so we also need the yang aspect which is the flame to circulate the fluids to lubricate the whole body and organs. Yin is cultivated and preserved through stillness, Yang is cultivated through movement. If we only do extreme physical exercise, very hard and fast, we heat up the flame which feels good but it burns up the yin oil.

Taiji and slow movement exercises of the IMA's derive the best health benefits by moving very slowly to preserve the Yin but also need to be very rigorous with low stances etc. in order to build up the Yang, so that a lot of heat and sweat is generated. If you only do the rigorous aspect though you won't realize the loss of Yin until it's nearly too late. And if you move so slowly that no heat builds up you never circulate the fluids and the body doesn't regenerate or move the lymphatic fluids enough, so the health benefits are minimal.

You older folks should really think about taking some Yin tonifying herbs. And everyone should be eating some serious yams. Yin is very hard to build up in the body but very easy to lose. Yin is fluid so it's hard for the digestive system to absorb, sticky substances like yams slow it down so we can absorb more of the essential fluids. Avoid 'fanning' the yang flame with stimulants and certain supplements and foods, as it only burns up the yin faster. Rely on your own bodies capability of heating up from the inside, in other words with 'Yi' intent.

.

[Ian]

"I know I feel best when I train until exhaustion..."

There's a chinese saying that John W. had mentioned one time, it's something like "If you walk 2 hours to your practice, you still need to have enough energy to walk 2 hours back home."

----

In the body we have the root of energy in the kidneys, the yin part of the kidney is like the oil that provides the fuel for the yang part which is the flame. Yin is the fluid-like substances in the body, EFA's, lubricating fluids around the joints etc. as we age the yin diminishes and we dry up from the inside and once the oil/fuel is gone the flame goes out. We need to preserve the yin oil but without heat and movement it will become stagnant and congeal and crystallize, so we also need the yang aspect which is the flame to circulate the fluids to lubricate the whole body and organs. Yin is cultivated and preserved through stillness, Yang is cultivated through movement. If we only do extreme physical exercise, very hard and fast, we heat up the flame which feels good but it burns up the yin oil.

Taiji and slow movement exercises of the IMA's derive the best health benefits by moving very slowly to preserve the Yin but also need to be very rigorous with low stances etc. in order to build up the Yang, so that a lot of heat and sweat is generated. If you only do the rigorous aspect though you won't realize the loss of Yin until it's nearly too late. And if you move so slowly that no heat builds up you never circulate the fluids and the body doesn't regenerate or move the lymphatic fluids enough, so the health benefits are minimal.

You older folks should really think about taking some Yin tonifying herbs. And everyone should be eating some serious yams. Yin is very hard to build up in the body but very easy to lose. Yin is fluid so it's hard for the digestive system to absorb, sticky substances like yams slow it down so we can absorb more of the essential fluids. Avoid 'fanning' the yang flame with stimulants and certain supplements and foods, as it only burns up the yin faster. Rely on your own bodies capability of heating up from the inside, in other words with 'Yi' intent.

.

I don't do CMAs and I don't believe in TCM, though.

We don't always train to exhaustion, but its useful to do so from time to time. Have you ever tried it?

[kreese]

I like what D_Glenn wrote. It may not be scientific, but neither is the are of living (we are not Terminator robots). There is something about doing exercise in such as way that you maintain as much relaxation as possible. I think it has to do with moderating the stress response in the body. If we can push ourselves to a certain limit without letting the stress hormones overflow, we can nurture energy and get the positive benefits to our circulatory system as well. I think it may have to do with the fact that we don't shut off the digestive and restorative functions of the body by getting all fight-and-flighty.

[kreese]

BHassler - there is just so much money for aging research. There are tons of studies that should be done, but ain't no one gonna pay for them.