The Interface Between MMA and Combatives

[neijia_boxer]

my boxing coach is a former pro boxer. He also trains in submission grappling and BJJ. He is a big time advocate of functional martial arts like JKD, Jun Fa, knife fighting, filipino weapons, etc. He trains a whole lot at the MMA school. He is a former Army boxer and now does security work (I can't tell you what he does but it is government/security work wearing a concealed weapon). He trains like a MMA fighter probably almost every day. He teaches self defense seminars, Crossfit, and he still competes when he can. His ratio is probably higher on the empty hand stuff probably 70 empty hand/30 weapon, but I really don't know, I could ask him.

[everything]

would be good to hear. also, otoh, sorry to threadjack, but i'd much rather hear about this topic for a NON-professional audience. how does it apply to average joe/jane, in other words, who have zero background in combat sports or military training.

[DeusTrismegistus]

Seems to me that if you are interested in MMA and the combatives lke Ian has mentioned, that you first need to figure out where the overlap occurs. Then you need to identify which areas are unique to each, then decide how much training time you want to devote to each area. The overlapping area would provide benefits to both practices. I would think that area would be the one to have the most training time. How much time you focus on MMA specific or combatives specific subjects would be determined by your priorities.

[Wanderingdragon]

MMA :win or go home, Combatives :win or die, same techniques different intent

[Chris McKinley]

Something that so far nobody but me seems to be addressing is the fact that whether you are a sport fighter intent on maximizing your win column, a first-tier special operative needing to quietly infiltrate an enemy location, or just a regular schmo wanting to get home safely with your wife and kids, you first need to identify exactly what your specific training needs and objectives are. There is no meaning to discussing any particular 'blend' of MMA, combatives, or anything else unless and until you have done so.

[Shooter]

Something that so far nobody but me seems to be addressing is...
you first need to identify exactly what your specific training needs and objectives are...

nah...just do your punch/kick drills and get your spar on...

In all seriousness, I'll add to what Chris wrote by stressing the importance of assessing your actual, current abilities and physicality. Find out what your limitations are and work within them - what we call, 'Personal Combat' over here.

Most importantly, find an instructor/facilitator who will respect your Personal Combat and place it above all else in their priortization of your training needs. Most coaches and/or martial art instructors/teachers don't even know how that works.

[Chris McKinley]

Most importantly, find an instructor/facilitator who will respect your Personal Combat and place it above all else in their priortization of your training needs. Most coaches and/or martial art instructors/teachers don't even know how that works.

+1

[daniel pfister]

you first need to identify exactly what your specific training needs and objectives are.

That'd be nice, but is probably asking too much in most cases. It seems that few people come to MA with very specific training goals, and even if they think they do, those goals might change as they see more stuff they like and other stuff they don't. I try to let people gravitate toward what they like rather than try to force a decision right at the get-go.

[Chris McKinley]

It's not about forcing anything, Daniel. It's about finding what's driving folks, if that's relevant. Even if they don't have any idea why they want to train, it's an opportunity to illustrate exactly why it's important to figure it out.

[DeusTrismegistus]

If you are trying to figure out how to split your time between combatives type training and competition type training knowing your own priorities is very important IMO. If you want to compete for fun but are more concerned about defending yourself or loved ones then you will train differently than someone who wants to go pro and defend themselves second.

[Ian]

Chris,

No offense taken.

Likewise, while perhaps not their mainstay, many good combatives programs also take a break from the techniques to develop general attributes with regularity.

Say your 'major' is combatives, and you already have good partners/equipment/facilities to cover mindset, athleticism, fundamental skills, key moves, strategies, tactics, biomechanics, emotional intent etc. for the aforementioned specific training needs and objectives...





(other good examples are the type of training found at The Crucible)

...Would you still spend time on MMA, and why?
How much time out of your total allotted training time would you devote to MMA?
What areas would you focus on, specifically?

I hope I'm now asking the right questions.

[Chris McKinley]

Ian,

Say your 'major' is combatives, and you already have good partners/equipment/facilities to cover mindset, athleticism, fundamental skills, key moves, strategies, tactics, biomechanics, emotional intent etc. for the aforementioned specific training needs and objectives...Would you still spend time on MMA, and why?

It would all depend on what I have identified as my training objectives. If I'm getting all I need out of my current program, the answer would be a pragmatic "No". If I needed additional time spent on a specific aspect that my current training offers, and I find an MMA program that also offers that aspect, I might add the MMA training for that additional practice time. If there were an aspect that I needed that a given MMA program offers and my current combatives program does not, then yes, I would add that in to complete my training repertoire.

What is going to change, and likely vary wildly, are the needs of each individual for whom we begin making all these assessments. As a result, talking about this subject in the generic sense is quickly going to reach diminishing returns. IMO, it would be far more productive to start with a specific example, even a hypothetical one, to act as a template upon which we can demonstrate how we might go about determining what kind of training is necessary and where/how it might be obtained.

I hope I'm now asking the right questions.

Without being facetious in the slightest, if that's all we accomplished with this thread, it will have been worth its weight in gold.

[yeniseri]

...Would you still spend time on MMA, and why?
How much time out of your total allotted training time would you devote to MMA?
What areas would you focus on, specifically?

In mid 2011, I got back from Afghanistan. I heard about this PRT (Protection Response Tactics-PRT) and decided to do this one day introduction courtesy of Executive Protection Institute (EPI).
Since Iwas not going back immediately, it would be a great way to see what this entailed. Much of what they teach is applicable for the job. I learnt a few 'tricks' and they were positive.
After the course, I had no compulsion to be any part of MMA but I acknowledge some of basic MMA stuff is applicable. And I don't mean rolling on the ground, kicking etc.
I tried to find something on PRT but was unable to do so so perhaps someone can have better luck.
If someone lunges at the principal, the one closest (within reach) grabs the principal while the other(s) member take on the assailant (efficiently, of course) typical cover and evacuate (C&E). There is process and procedure.

[HaraldH]

EPI trainer:
http://www.atlantamartialartscenter.com/sifu-alan-baker.html
He does have a grade in qigong as well

[everything]

well this guy Sifu Baker is kinda crazy! Belts, certifications, teacher, MMA, JKD, FMA, TSD, RKC, bjj, judo, qigong, weapons, etc. Where did he find more than 24 hours in a day?