Chi Revolution

[Wu_Style_Disciple]

BKF has a new book entitled, "Chi Revolution".

Check it out at:

http://www.amazon.com/CHI-Revolution-Harnessing-Healing-Power/dp/1583941932/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1222282251&sr=8-1

He certainly knows how to market himself, and I have to say that I do find that his books contain a lot of good information.

[Bill]

It's a clever title.

[JessOBrien]

It's pretty much a simplified look at his perspective on Chi. He is trying to reach people who are curious about Chi Gung. But I think his book Opening the Energy Gates is much more effective. I found Energy Gates much more inspiring and interesting because even though you may not be able to do it right away, you get a sense of how deep and interesting the study of Chi Gung can be. Whereas Chi Revolution is pretty watered down, to communicate with people who might be turned off by the complexity of Energy Gates.

-Jess O

[Bao]

It was interesting to have a look at it. I haven't read his stuff. However much I admire the strength of his will, there are two things that I don't like. 1 mixing terminology from different cultures. 2 every answer becomes "chi". It is very easy to answer the question about how you can strike hard, with a relaxed arm without excessive tension, with the word "chi". In China, in the 1000 century ad, the answer on everything you can not explain was "chi". What separates heaven and earths? - Chi! What was the first "thing" that existed? - "Chi"! It is a great answer, because you don't need to explain anything! How do you learn to use IMA to strike hard? What about body dynamics? Does he teach that in class if you give him a couple of thousand dollars, or will his answer stillbe chi? I had a teacher like that, who didn't actually want to teach their students anything. If you asked him anything, he would either say "it will come with practice" or "it's about chi". He is a great practitioner and have had many hundreds of students, but only two or three of them have actually learned something from him, although many people have studied with him for more than 30 years! I don't know very much about this fellow, BKF, but I know that sometimes the very best practitioners and performers can be the worst kind of teachers.

[JessOBrien]

I talked to a student of Wang Shu Jin, the famous internal martial arts master form Taiwan, one time. I asked him how Wang explained his ability to take any strike and to deliver very powerful strikes with little movement. He said that Wang's only reply to such questions was "Chi". So maybe there is something to it..

I've been to Kumar's classes on many occasions. He gives very detailed instructions for how to use the physical and energetic teachings in training martial arts and chi gung. Probably the most detailed instructions I've ever received in Chinese martial arts. They work too. He teaches primarily chi gung at this time. But much of the instruction is the same in both.

If you want a look at his teaching method for specific step by step training, look at "Opening the Energy Gates". That is how he teaches his chi gung and martial arts sets.

-Jess O

[neijia_boxer]

You say you wanna revolution..... well you know....we all want to chi the world!

[64Palms]

"the answer on everything you can not explain was "chi""

But that is the answer to everything if one trains hard and studies intelligently. Qi has a multitude of meanings and can be expressed through a variety of concepts, arts, and cultures. Hence, "Chi" is the answer and it is not the answer. It is a way of explaining the most in depth of phenomena and the most simple earthly (or universal) manifestations.

"However much I admire the strength of his will, there are two things that I don't like. 1 mixing terminology from different cultures. 2 every answer becomes "chi". It is very easy to answer the question about how you can strike hard, with a relaxed arm without excessive tension, with the word "chi"."

This is all very good - but i believe he is writing for multiple cultures - and by mixing terminology is he then not using one answer for everything?

"I haven't read his stuff."

In this case what you have said above has no relevance what-so-ever! How can you criticise someone's writing style if you haven't read it?!?!

"In China, in the 1000 century ad"

I think we are only currently in the 21st Century AD/CE.

I actually am not the biggest fan of Mr. Frantzis writing style but i do gain insight from his works. I think that it is really important that if you wish to criticise someones work that you at least read it first.

[Andy_S]

SNIP
I talked to a student of Wang Shu Jin, the famous internal martial arts master form Taiwan, one time. I asked him how Wang explained his ability to take any strike and to deliver very powerful strikes with little movement.
SNIP

Hmm, the "ability to take any strike"?

In his last book, Robert Smith gave the game away re Wang's party trick (which was to allow people to kick him as hard as they liked in the legs). Apparently, Smith gave Wang a good kicking, at (IIRC) GM Chang's house; Smith's blows appeared to have no effect. Later, the meeting broke up, but as Smith walked past Wang's house, he heard howls of agony. It has not been qi, it had been endurance of pain. Wang, incidentally, claimed to Frantzis that he was stronger and healthier and a better fighter than Frantzis, despite being older than him, cos of his "qi." Well, Wang died, massively overweight, with a huge open tumor eating into one of his indestructible legs. It is difficult not to conclude that his belief in qi led, more or less, to his unpleasent demise.

Bottom line: Qigong and CMA are all very well, but a bit of common sense doesn't hurt either. To put it another way, qi/qigong is not the cure for everything.

[Bao]

This is all very good - but i believe he is writing for multiple cultures - and by mixing terminology is he then not using one answer for everything?

His answer for everythin g is chi, but he mixes indian terminonolgy which has quite other meaning. Poeplewho doesn't know much about this stuff will have hard to understand and interprete many things in a meaningful manner. It is a quite common problem and IMA is allready hard to comprehend. Why must we make it even more difficult?

"I haven't read his stuff."In this case what you have said above has no relevance what-so-ever! How can you criticise someone's writing style if you haven't read it?!?! I actually am not the biggest fan of Mr. Frantzis writing style but i do gain insight from his works. I think that it is really important that if you wish to criticise someones work that you at least read it first.

There was a link to Amazon. I read what was there to read "go inside this book". And I have read some other quotes, I Should maybe have been more clear about that. I haven't read a whole book, that was what I meant. I have read so much that I know that there is a problem and I recognize the same from other teachers.

"In China, in the 1000 century ad"
I think we are only currently in the 21st Century AD/CE.

I meant the 10th century, sorry. I wrote that post very late at night

[CaliG]

SNIP
I talked to a student of Wang Shu Jin, the famous internal martial arts master form Taiwan, one time. I asked him how Wang explained his ability to take any strike and to deliver very powerful strikes with little movement.
SNIP

Hmm, the "ability to take any strike"?

In his last book, Robert Smith gave the game away re Wang's party trick (which was to allow people to kick him as hard as they liked in the legs). Apparently, Smith gave Wang a good kicking, at (IIRC) GM Chang's house; Smith's blows appeared to have no effect. Later, the meeting broke up, but as Smith walked past Wang's house, he heard howls of agony. It has not been qi, it had been endurance of pain. Wang, incidentally, claimed to Frantzis that he was stronger and healthier and a better fighter than Frantzis, despite being older than him, cos of his "qi." Well, Wang died, massively overweight, with a huge open tumor eating into one of his indestructible legs. It is difficult not to conclude that his belief in qi led, more or less, to his unpleasent demise.

Bottom line: Qigong and CMA are all very well, but a bit of common sense doesn't hurt either. To put it another way, qi/qigong is not the cure for everything.

I agree I think everything has to taken into context.

Most professional boxers/kickboxers can take blows that would knock out most martial artists but you don't hear them saying it's because of "chi."

I think the problem with chi is that everyone who believes in it would naturally want more of it so it's a great marketing tool. But to me whether your acupunturist tells you about chi as they stick needles in you or they don't it seems that the results of the treatment will still be the same.

The point being yes there's qi, but why dwell on it?

As ShanghaiJay once said, "Qi is like shit, it just happens."

[JessOBrien]

SNIP
In his last book, Robert Smith gave the game away re Wang's party trick

Hi Andy,

Wang's ability to take hits was far beyond a parlour trick. You'll see in Chinese Boxing that Wang is taking a full on hit to the body from Hong Yi Xiang who was known to be able to hit hard. From talking to people who had seen Wang in action, his skills were genuine.

Mr. Smith's books have many good stories in them. But as a person who works in the publishing industry, I take everything from a book with a grain of salt. It's hard to say exactly who was screaming inside Wang's house, that really doesn't prove anything. I prefer to take information from first hand sources, and that's where I learned about Wang Shu Jin's strengths.

Again, based on the first hand accounts I've been fortunate to hear, Wang had something very special. He was a very tough guy. He attributed it to Qi.

As for Wang's death, yes, he died. He died from a severe case of diabetes. Many people die from this, with or without qi-based treatment. I find it a bit distasteful that you accuse the man of lacking common sense because he died from diabetes. Unfortunately, neither allopathic medicine nor qigong are able to cure diabetes at this time.

Bottom line for me is that a very well respected fighter used qi cultivation as part of his training. Whether anyone wants to pursue that line of thought is up to them.

[CaliG]

Hi Jesse,

I don't think Andy is being disrespectful to Wang. I didn't read that at all. I think he's sticking with the subject without trying to attack anyone.

I believe his point is that for all this talk about chi an internal health you still need to be realistic about your health and your training.

I remember years ago a taiji teacher/master died of cancer and in the taiji world some believed that this meant he wasn't really a master because if you could move chi supposedly you shouldn't get cancer.

At the time, I was new to this stuff, I didn't know what to think but now I know it's a bunch of hogwash. People live, people die, chi is all around us, but it alone is not going to stop the pain of a knockout blow or cure cancer.

My problem with training being only about chi is that in BKF's book he talks about how Wang said he could eat more than him, drink more than him and fuck more than him because of chi and I just don't see that as a measure of health.

My view of health comes from both an eastern and western medical perspective. I mean you can't live off of Big Macs, have martini lunches, and fuck like a rabbit everynight and expect to live long because you do qigong.

I'd also point out that Hoodini also did that punch in the belly trick. Wang may have told people it was all chi that gave him his abilities but I believe his closest students were probably exposed to a lot more material.

Good times,

G

[zenshiite]

This is all very good - but i believe he is writing for multiple cultures - and by mixing terminology is he then not using one answer for everything?

His answer for everythin g is chi, but he mixes indian terminonolgy which has quite other meaning. Poeplewho doesn't know much about this stuff will have hard to understand and interprete many things in a meaningful manner. It is a quite common problem and IMA is allready hard to comprehend. Why must we make it even more difficult?

Are you talking about "prana?" Because from the stuff I've read on yoga prana and Qi are identical.

The only time I find the cross cultural semantics thing gets iffy is when they say prana and Qi are the same as the term "baraka" in Islamic mystical circles... which isn't entirely true. Though I do find it very interesting how in Greek, Hebrew, Aramaic and Arabic the words for soul and spirit have pretty much the same literal meaning as Qi and Prana. Mean, breath or wind.

[CaliG]

Yeah, I suppose Big Macs, drinking and fucking could be considered a good time by some.

But I prefer fish and chips.

[neijia_boxer]

My TCM doctor who was famous in Taiwan always made sure her patients were on a strict qi based diet before undergoing acupunture treatment. this is because food has the most abundant source of qi. If your qi is weak then acupunture is useless. like having no water in your house- your turn on the faucet (acupuncture to open meridian)and nothing comes out.

her philosophy is that qi is the most important thing. what ever form you do- job, skill, martial art, it requires qi. A person who sits behind a desk all day working or a construction worker hammering nails all day uses up the same amount of qi.

in a day you have a certain amount of qi- qigong only helps you to preserve and store it. her prefered way of qigong was sitting in TM (Transendental meditation) because when you forget yourself- you attain a high level of relaxation which in turn allows qi to circulate best.