This isn't the thread you're looking for.

[gzregorz]

another thing that is being overlooked is if you were an aikido guy and you had a chance to train with an amazing ima teacher, who could not only demonstrate this stuff but actually teach it in a way with a pass on the skills, why would you do aikido?

nothing against aikido, but most of what I see them do is involves two arms on the opponent's one arm and then from there lock, throw or both. where as most Chinese internal styles have so many more applications including striking.

[Bhassler]

My point is that it doesn't matter who your point of reference is. If you can teach it, it should be manifest and no one should have to take anything on faith. If someone is not able to get their message across, it's because they are either unclear themselves, because they don't have the requisite communication skill, or because everyone is invested in their own opinions and no one wants to hear it, anyways.

It's a good point, but you left out other common reasons why "the good stuff" isn't taught. One reason is because it isn't demanded by students - many students are happy to be in the presence of "greatness" and hang on every word of the teacher. The teacher can then teach "easy" stuff - rather than "the good stuff" - that separates the students from their money and keeps the students returning, while the student is thinking they are "getting the goods". It's much easier - and less risky - to teach standing, forms, silk reeling, than it is the important details, or applications. This isn't limited to Chinese teachers.

I'm fortunate never to have experienced that first hand. With all the best guys that I've met, the same qualities that make them successful in IMA also make them successful in other areas of life, so none of my teachers have had any need to milk students for cash. I have no doubt that it happens, though.

[gzregorz]

another thing that is being overlooked is if you were an aikido guy and you had a chance to train with an amazing ima teacher, who could not only demonstrate this stuff but actually teach it in a way with a pass on the skills, why would you do aikido?

nothing against aikido, but most of what I see them do is involves two arms on the opponent's one arm and then from there lock, throw or both. where as most Chinese internal styles have so many more applications including striking.

I'm obviously playing devil's advocate, but the point I'm trying to make is aikido people I met who took up some IMA training still spent most of their time and focus on aikido and as a result they probably never reached the potential they could have in Chinese martial arts. The stuff they got from the Chinese either directly or indirectly was just something to supplement their training. So even if CXW were to teach the indoor hardcore next level gonfu more than likely it wouldn't be the main focus on their training. So why be concerned about them?