Pakua of Lu Shuai Tien-

[neijia_boxer]

Any students of Park Bok Nam or other Lu shuai Tien pakuachang here on EF? I wanted to exchange information. i have some questions on the curriculum as well.

[cerebus]

Don't know much about PBN's curriculum, but while living in Europe, I trained in the curriculum of his school brother Shin Dae Woung. Woung's curriculum concentrated heavily on Shaolin (Longfist) and Mantis as well as Bagua. Very interesting stuff...

[neijia_boxer]

do you remember the basic 8 stances and 8 basic kicks of his curriculum?

All i can remember are-
basic stances:
1. Horse stance
2. Mt. climber stance (variation of bow stance)
3. Goose stance (knee almost touch ground)
4. Empty or Cat stance
5. Balance stance (one leg)
6. drop stance
7. half sitting stance
8. ?
I know they also had dragon stance but that was not in the 8 basic stances. also kou bu and bai bu were not part of 8 basics stances as well.

Kicks- not sure about order and if these are totally correct.
1. low hook kick
2. outside heel kick
3. side kick
4. front snap kick
5. chinese round kick
6. back heel kick
7. tornado kick
8. back sweep kick

[cerebus]

In the Shin Dae Woung curriculum, we had a set of 8 postures and a set of 6 kicks.
Postures were (using names that are more easily recognizable, not necessarily the names as I was taught them)
1)Forward Stance
2)Half-kneeling forward stance (probably what you refer to as "goose stance")
3)Horse Stance
4)Twisted Horse Stance
5)Empty-leg stance ("cat" stance)
6)Single-Leg ("crane) Stance
7)"Lying-leg" stance (all weight on one leg, other leg extended & as low to ground as possible)
8) "Ba Gua" Stance (like San Ti, but with Ba Gua hand position).

Kicks were
1)Front Snap Kick
2)Side Heel Kick
3)Front thrust kick with heel followed by back thrust kick with heel, same leg
4)Low cutting side kick to the knee
5)High front heel kick into rear upward heel kick as the foot descends
6)Same as 5, but going into a low stretch position

[edededed]

The 8 stances seem similar to, well, similar sets of 8 stances in various mantis styles.

For example, 7 star praying mantis has:

Horse Stance (馬式, mashi)
Mountain Climbing Stance (登山式, dengshanshi), i.e. forward stance/bow stance
Empty Stance (虛式, xushi)
Seven Star Stance (七星式, qixingshi), like xushi but with toes pointing up
Collapsing Stance (吞塌式, tuntashi), low stance
Entering Ring Stance (入環式, ruhuanshi), like a low crouching stance with one knee close to the ground
One-legged Stance (獨立式, dulishi)
Cold Chicken Stance (寒雞式, hanjishi)

I would guess that Lu Shuitian's stances also came from mantis as well, as he had apparently learned some mantis in addition to his bagua. Of course, it can be helpful to practice them for bagua, anyway.

[cerebus]

Yes, very heavy mantis influence in what I learned. Even the 16 Bagua linear sets incorporated mantis hooks and foot-sweeps (7-star stance).

The names I learned for the postures (and the somewhat loose "translations") in the same order as I gave above, were:
Dung San Shi (Young Tiger Climbs the Large Mountain)
Sao Dung San Shi (Young Tiger Climbs the Small Mountain)
Ki Ma Shi (Horse Riding Posture)
Pan Jua Shi (The Dragon Coils Upon Himself)
An Ki Bu (The Hen Walking on Ice)
Kin Gi Ruri (The Rooster Crows at Dawn)
Fu Tei Shi (The Snake Crawls Upon the Ground)
Ba Gua Shi (The Dragon is Awakened by a Mysterious Creature)

You can see that the translations were embellished a bit...

[Royal Dragon]

http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?p ... maf&page=1

[cerebus]

http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?p=r&user=twmaf&page=1

I didn't look at everything on there, but I looked at a fair amount of it. I didn't see anything that I recognized. I also didn't see any good Kung Fu. The people in the clips I watched were wearing black belts, but, well..... they sucked...

[schmuhl]

I'm actually running through Park's Fundamental of Pa Ku Change, Volume I right now. I don't recognize the 8 stances and kicks from those books though.

[neijia_boxer]

I'm actually running through Park's Fundamental of Pa Ku Change, Volume I right now. I don't recognize the 8 stances and kicks from those books though.

i studied with him. there are tons of info that is not in the books.

[SteveBonzak]

Hi-

The stances you listed were correct. Stance #8 is the dragon stance. The order you listed is not the usual order, however. The kicks you listed were also correct. Anything else?

-Steve

[C-Hopkins]

How is his Bagua in a practical sense? Is it effective?

Does it mirror other systems of Bagua? Is it worth studying?

[cerebus]

The Bagua portion of the curriculum I learned is VERY practical and effective. How similar it is to Park's Bagua, that I cannot say...

[neijia_boxer]

Hi-

The stances you listed were correct. Stance #8 is the dragon stance. The order you listed is not the usual order, however. The kicks you listed were also correct. Anything else?

-Steve

Yes I have another question:

After the warm-ups and stretching at the school there was a line drill preformed. Park does it in his First fundamentals of pakua video (and adds a kick and split) where: you start in horse stance one hand blocking low/ other is high, you sweep/catch a kick, step forward and throw the guy and now your back in horse stance on other side. i cant remember the name- maybe Ti tae and tie ya tae? you can add kick to this line drill. Very effective wrestling type move i actually unconsciusly used in a sanda match.

[SteveBonzak]

Yep. It is called Ti tae. I usually always do it with the kick and then end with the splits (as far as I can, at least). I agree that it is a good wrestling move.

-Steve