How Does Aikido Deal with Resistance?

[cdobe]

There is a guy named Jason Delucia who practices Aikido and has fought at professional MMA tournaments including UFC 2. He has a video series called Combat Aikido. I've seen it and it looked good. Here are some clips from youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnq-RdVTKmo


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UCPF0ZRRhk


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbkKmCghgSA


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOdGrvKSje4

[GrahamB]

Thanks for those vids CD (first one reminded me a lot of XingYi/XYLH, and especially the way XYLH does Pi ((called 'eagle seize?')) ) - was nice to see, but are there any vids of him working with resistance that's not co-operative?

I know, I know - it's never enough...

Edit: Ah, found one myself:



I thought this was pretty good. I like him.

[PlumDragon]

I used to meet up with a training partner at a gym and occasionally did ground work (him BJJ, myself Dumog from FMA) following an Aikido class before they put the mats up. One class in particular they were working ground submissions. Folowing the class, we hit the mats and were doing some pretty intense rolling. Half the class stayed behind and watched us with these looks in their eyes like, "What?? You mean you can actually do this with someone else trying to respond reciprocally in a serious, intense way??"

I have no doubt that there are some very talented Aikido guys out there, but my experience with Aikido (which isnt much) is that the quality of applicable AIkido is low in todays world.

[Ron Panunto]

Watch some Steven Segal movies.

[JessOBrien]

When you encounter resistance in Aikido, the response is "atemi". The instant you feel any attempt to stop you technique, you slap him in the face then immediately go back to the original or a new technique. If that doesn't work, slap, punch or kick him again, then go back to the technique.

The way I learned Aikido, no techniques are even attempted without atemi. Atemi is the instant, ingrained response to any aggression.

The two main "atemi" in Aikido look exactly like Pi Quan and Beng Quan of Xing Yi, they are called Shomen Uchi and Tsuki.

-Jess O

[Fubo]

Here are a couple of vids of Aikido randori with resistance. One of the instructors, Chris Hein, is a student of Tim Cartmell's

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KAbbKRhnN4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KAbbKRhnN4

Some of the more refreshing stuff I've seen of Aikido material on the web... sure it doesn't have the "continuous flow" of some of the Aikido you see against fully cooperating partners, but it addresses a certain degree of realistic resistance which most of the clips on Aikido out there don't have.

Thanks Fubo, I agree with what these guys are doing using resistance as a way to overcome resistance.

I wonder if this is how the top aikido guys trained.

It would be interesting to compare the differences between how some of the top old school guys trained and most people now.

I have read some of his posts on his thoughts on the original purpose of Aikido (being more about the attacker with the weapon and how to deal with people who try to disarm you etc... I hope I'm not mis-quoting him) and they are pretty interesting and make a lot of sense to me.

I also like the restrictive context some of the drills or randori are done in.

As for some of the critics of his videos, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I disagree with the idea that this is the wrong way to go. I'm sure Mr. Heins does and has done plenty of the cooperative practices almost all Aikidoka solely do, but when resistance enters the equation, even the most masterful technican will look un-flowy and Aiki like unless they have had a lot of mat time with "aliveness" (please don't shoot me for that - I get equally board at Thornton"s word). I'd like to see more high level practitioners of Aikido doing the kinds of things Mr. Heins is doing, and see how they fare against someone who isn't jumping all over the place for them and giving them a good dose of resistance.

[CaliG]

There is a guy named Jason Delucia who practices Aikido and has fought at professional MMA tournaments including UFC 2. He has a video series called Combat Aikido. I've seen it and it looked good. Here are some clips from youtube:

Jason's rolled with Royce a few times. I get the feeling that after rolling with Royce he added ground grappling to his arsenal, which makes sense to me. I think going out, testing your stuff and making adjustments is the way to go. But I also think the stuff here is closer to judo than aikido, I didn't watch them all. But why re-create the wheel?

[CaliG]

You can go to aikiweb, a site devoted to the aiki arts, and search his name, and then see how well his video's are received.
http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthrea ... chris+hein

Without reading it I'm sure it's going to be criticized. Just judging by the Aikidora I know. My point is that one needs to deal with resistance to overcome it.

For example if you want to avoid a single leg take down you can either just come up with ideas on what you'd do, circle-walk, grab their head and twist, sprawl or you could have a wrestler shoot in on you and see what you can do. Before I started playing with wrestlers I had different ideas of what I'd but after playing with wrestlers those ideas changed.

My point is I liked that vid because they are working with resistance, as far as the knife stuff...well again I just saw it as a training drill but more realistic than most attacks I've seen in aikido vidz where some people just throw their bodies at the aikidora.

Again, I'm not saying it's a waste of time. I throw and slam my grappling dummy all the time and get a lot out of it to work on my throwing form, but I certainly don't think it would be that easy to throw a 220lbs. American football player who didn't want to go down. Which is why I also train these throws against resisting opponents.

Thanks for that other vid.

[CaliG]

When you encounter resistance in Aikido, the response is "atemi". The instant you feel any attempt to stop you technique, you slap him in the face then immediately go back to the original or a new technique. If that doesn't work, slap, punch or kick him again, then go back to the technique.

The way I learned Aikido, no techniques are even attempted without atemi. Atemi is the instant, ingrained response to any aggression.

The two main "atemi" in Aikido look exactly like Pi Quan and Beng Quan of Xing Yi, they are called Shomen Uchi and Tsuki.

-Jess O

Hi Jess,

That's pretty cool.

I went to an Aikido class once years ago to check it out eand I thought I saw some atemi. I asked a teacher about that pi-chuan-ish chop, as to what part of the hand you hit with and she said, "Aikido has no strikes!" as if talking to some primitive caveman. Needless to say I never went back.

If I had been in your class I probably would have stuck around.

[Dale Dugas]

When you encounter resistance in Aikido, the response is "atemi". The instant you feel any attempt to stop you technique, you slap him in the face then immediately go back to the original or a new technique. If that doesn't work, slap, punch or kick him again, then go back to the technique.

The way I learned Aikido, no techniques are even attempted without atemi. Atemi is the instant, ingrained response to any aggression.

The two main "atemi" in Aikido look exactly like Pi Quan and Beng Quan of Xing Yi, they are called Shomen Uchi and Tsuki.

-Jess O

This is how I trained Iwama Ha Aikido in Iwate Ken in Japan.

People started to resist and we softened them up with striking into some soft innervated places.

[Fubo]

But I also think the stuff here is closer to judo than aikido

That's because Judo is like Aikido, difference being Judo actually works...

Oooooooooooo Just joking! Don't kill me Aikido people.

[mixjourneyman]

But I also think the stuff here is closer to judo than aikido

Oooooooooooo Just joking! Don't kill me Aikido people.

I don't think they could....


J/K of course.

[strawdog]

If I understood C Hein correctyly in what he's doing with his Aikido is that there's supposed to be resistance because there are supposed to be weapons involved.

You're either preventing someone from using a weapon on you or they're preventing you from using your weapon. Remember that Aikido developed from a weapon based type of Jiu Jitsu. Meaning to say it would be the Jiu Jitsu practiced by a social class who were always armed, the Samurai.

What would a practitioner of this type of Jiu Jitsu do against a boxer? He'd take his foot long tanto out and cut him. It woud be ridiculous to try to out punch someone trained specifically to punch you out. How smart is it to jab a man wielding a footlong knife? Now it's up to the boxer to keep the armed man from dicing and slicing him. Grapple him, grab the wrist... and there you go, there's the jiu jitsu.

What about the grapplers, clinch fighters, the wrestlers. Take the clinch without taking into account the possible knife and see what happens. Go ahead take the shoot. You'd get a cross faced by a fist with a knife attached to it.

Everything should be evaluated for its intended context and purpose. Some cars make great race cars but lousy commuter cars and vice versa.

The technique repertoire in Aikido had its place one upon a time. Sadly its nothing more than an interpretive dance nowadays. The intent was lost somewhere when Ueshiba started calling it the art of love and harmony. The hippies got into it and it all went to shit.

[Interloper]

The technique repertoire in Aikido had its place one upon a time. Sadly its nothing more than an interpretive dance nowadays. The intent was lost somewhere when Ueshiba started calling it the art of love and harmony. The hippies got into it and it all went to shit.

It wasn't the technique repertoire but the aiki derived from Daito-ryu aikijujutsu that gave Ueshiba (aikido's founder) its "place" and power. The sad part is that aikido became the "interpretive dance" as soon as Ueshiba stopped teaching internal skills (aiki) and left his aikido descendents with an empty box which they were forced, in the absence of aiki, to fill with externally driven technique and the necessity of cooperative ukes.

[zenman]

Watch some Steven Segal movies.

He does Aikido like it's Hapkido...