Learning to mud step low

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: Learning to mud step low

Postby Muad'dib on Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:32 pm

Interesting that you have a hard time "tucking" while walking low. What this most likely means is that your lower back muscles are not balanced with your abdominal muscles. For beginners whose legs lack either the muscle or tendon strength to support low walking, there is a tendency to tense up all over. The result here, if I am correct, is that the pull from the abs overrides the counterforce your lower back muscles should be exerting. Also it is possible that your lower back muscles lack the "length" or elasticity to tuck correctly. Either one or both can be corrected with targeted exercises unrelated to bagua.

BTW, if you hold a low horse stance can you keep your spine straight and pelvis properly tucked?
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Re: Learning to mud step low

Postby LJN on Tue Oct 07, 2008 6:48 pm

I mean if something goes wrong with my Jeep or my Conservator/Crosley washer and dryer made in Canada. I think you are the blame. Idiotic American governmental/financial policies are not Canada's fault, but these cheep appliances and oddly shaped chrysler products may be some kind of reason to invade; not to mention the darn Canadian funny money that keeps showing up in my pocket. Of course it is worth more than the American change now.

Mix, the government of America is about 1000 times more likely to bomb American citizens than you.
They may be planning it as I type.

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Re: Learning to mud step low

Postby kreese on Tue Oct 07, 2008 7:19 pm

I think arched back is the norm for most people, so straightening the lower spine is a bit of an effort, esp. the way it reditsributes your body's mass forcing slightly different combinations of leg muscles to engage. I'm sorry for the last sentence, but I wanted to be clear.
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Re: Learning to mud step low

Postby ParryPerson on Tue Oct 07, 2008 7:38 pm

I can hold low horse stance just fine, it takes some work but I can keep the back straight and tucked.

My ab muscles are pretty weak.

I can tuck higher, but if I try and keep that shape and go lower.... it does not go much lower or I feel like I am falling backwards (and I am!). I guess I'll keep it up and see what happens. When I walk my lower back wants to curve as well to make it easier, which is frustrating.
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Re: Learning to mud step low

Postby MartialDoctor on Wed Oct 08, 2008 3:52 am

ParryPerson wrote:I can tuck higher, but if I try and keep that shape and go lower.... it does not go much lower or I feel like I am falling backwards (and I am!). I guess I'll keep it up and see what happens. When I walk my lower back wants to curve as well to make it easier, which is frustrating.


Ah, I think I know what you are talking about here as I have had the same problem (and have a tendency to do when I am tired). I think what you need to keep in mind that, although your legs are bent and your tailbone is tucked under, you also need to exert a slight upward force at the highest point of your head (Bai Hui). This will both help with the curvature of your back and also keep you from leaning back too much.
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Re: Learning to mud step low

Postby ParryPerson on Fri Oct 10, 2008 9:49 am

Thanks for the posts guys, I asked my teacher more about it, and he said I was tucking to much, and he was right, I still can't go super low... but damned if I'm not trying to go as low as I can.
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Re: Learning to mud step low

Postby mixjourneyman on Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:13 am

Watch out for your knees.
It takes a little bit of adjustment time to be able to walk low without hurting yourself.
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Re: Learning to mud step low

Postby qiphlow on Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:19 pm

also keep in mind that these guys who are really good and make the low stances look easy have put a ton of time into their art.
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Re: Learning to mud step low

Postby shawnsegler on Fri Oct 10, 2008 4:14 pm

Yeah, it's kind of a grind for the first three or so years. You really need to learn to relax and enjoy the process for itself rather have some sort of goal orientation other than just meeting the requirements your teacher gives you for the walking.

Enjoy..or not if that's your trip, but I'd suggest enjoying.

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Re: Learning to mud step low

Postby H2O_Dragon on Fri Oct 10, 2008 5:43 pm

Sorry to but into a Bagua discussion, as I know nuthin about it, but this may help with the tucking thing. 'Tucking" is not so much of a physical thing as an intention thing. The idea is really similar to the 'ol string pulling up the head. You don't physically tuck, you mentally tuck. If you do it right, you'll find out you're not really tucking at all, you're sinking down into your feet.

As you get lower, you're butt will start to stick out more. That's OK, the body is designed that way. As long as you keep the 'intent' of tucking, you'll maintain good alignment.
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Re: Learning to mud step low

Postby C.J.Wang on Fri Oct 10, 2008 7:58 pm

ParryPerson wrote:As some of you might know I'm incredibly new to bagua, and the thing that has been giving me the MOST problems (as compared to the normal amount of problems with everything else ;D ) is the mud step. I get that the feet rise and fall level, thats not my hugest problem, the problem comes when I try and sink.

if I stick my butt out I can get lower, but the heel rises off the push stretch, and my waist isn't tucked. When I sink and then try to tuck my waist, I rise, and put more pressure on the ankles to bend to the shin. Is there something I'm missing? Will my ankles/waist/brain (haha) shape up in time? I see some peoples steps actually twist to the outside before the push, or during, is this the key?

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Hey Parry,

Your situation sounds like what I experienced when I first started too. Focus on getting the right alighment and posturefirst and don't worry about going low. Once flexibility in your lower body -- hip, knee, ankle-- increases, it won't be a problem.
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