Yongnian: Center of Taijiquan?

[Andy_S]

RE: Hongquan and Yang Taiji:
Hongquan is a widespread CMA; is there a system/subsystem still practiced in and around Yongnian? Would be interesting to compare and contrast

RE: Tongbei and Chen Taiji
Stephen makes the case that it was Tongbei that was mixed with Chen Chanxing's Taiji by Chen Youben, to create what is today known as Chen Taiji. Would also be interested to see that particular variant of Tongbei - which Stephen says is know for its silk-reeling/twining quality - as most modern Tongbei (short stances, big arm swinging movements) bears little or no resemblance to modern Chen (long, low stances, conservative hand movements)

[velalavela]

You know there a a couple of things that don't quite add up in the great 'Taiji origin" question.

regards the similarity to External Martial arts styles.
General Qi Ji Quan wrote a book that has a number of postures that are remarkably like Tai Chi postures and even have the same name. For instance "Cockeral standing on one leg" Seven star position and single whip.

If his book " The classic of martial arts" is authentic and the drawings/names authentic its a pretty good indication of the origins of the postures.

But:

Sanyou Wang Zhong Yueh was the author of the classic "Treatise of Tai Chi Chuan.
If Tai Chi is purely from the Chen Clan until Yang Lu Chan was taught why is the author not a Chen?

Jiang Fa is credited by Zhaobao Village( 2 klms from Chen Village) as teaching them their Tai Chi and that he was a disciple of Wang Zhong Yueh. Again if Tai Chi is purely a Chen creation who is this figure of Jiang fa. Do Yang Stylist ever refer to him in their history?

Chen Wang Din, a retired general from the Ming Dynasty is said to be the founder of Tai Chi but all his martial arts writings are said to only refer to Pao Chui.

So a few questions to think about?

[Andy_S]

SNIP
Jiang Fa is credited by Zhaobao Village( 2 klms from Chen Village) as teaching them their Tai Chi and that he was a disciple of Wang Zhong Yueh. Again if Tai Chi is purely a Chen creation who is this figure of Jiang fa. Do Yang Stylist ever refer to him in their history?
SNIP

Jiangfa is a mysterious figure. Stephen may or may not have some new info on him. There are pictures in the village of him standing at the shoulder of Chen Wanting - indicating that Chen was the senior of the two, if not the teacher of Jiang - but I am not sure how old these pics are/are meant to be.

SNIP
Chen Wang Din, a retired general from the Ming Dynasty is said to be the founder of Tai Chi but all his martial arts writings are said to only refer to Pao Chui.
SNIP

The term Taiji was not coined until well after Yang LC had gone to Beijing. Before that, it is unclear what the village arts were called; Paochoi, Chen Clan Boxing, etc. Yang, I believe, called his art Chen Boxing, Cotton Fist and/or Soft Boxing. So the "brand" Taijiquan is relatively new, but the art predates the name.

[velalavela]

Agree with all you say Andy_s.

The points I was raising are just more inconsistancies in the 'Tai Chi' history that raise a few questions.

The Authorship od the Tai Chi classic is one that's intruiged me,as is how it was discovered.

I know Tai Chi is a relatively recent term. But I think that the early Chen martial descriptions don't mention anything Tai Chi like, but then who is to say when that was starting to be developed and how it was described in martial poems or writings anyway.

Cheers

[taiwandeutscher]

The mentioned Shanghai Yang line with Yang Zhenduo and Yang Jun was really disappointing, when they showed up hear in Taiwan a few years ago. Isn't Yang Jun studying something else now to supplement his art? They seemed to have lost a lot, what still exists here in Yang lines (Wang Zihe, Xiong Yanghe etc.).

But I hear there is Yang Zhenhe from Yongnian, who is supposed to be quite good. Does anybody know him personally?

[Seán]

I know Yang Zhen He personally. I've been a student of his for some years now. He is very skilled and can certainly deliver the goods. He emphasizes ji ben gong and tui shou in his training, and is a real no bones about it kinda teacher. There are some good students of his in Germany, and a few are on the road to developing some good fighting skills.

I posted this already in another thread, but here again is the link to his site:

http://www.yangzhenhe.com/

Here is a short clip of him with one of his students: