the baguazhang legacy of Xie Peiqi

[D_Glenn]

Ttt

[D_Glenn]

So I wanted to reincarnate this, not because of the initial topic, which I don’t even remember, exactly. It ultimately was that Men Baozhen, deliberately switched around some of the 8 attack methods, in his 1935 Bagua book. And then some drama over how its now listed.

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I just wanted to bring this back because I had listed some important stuff about Bolang Jin (Crashing Wave Power) and Fanlang Jin (Reversing Wave Power), BLJ and FLJ respectively.

BLJ is more basic, easier to do, should be learned first, and you can do it multiple times in a row, when doing Single Striking Drills.

FLJ is high level, the ability to effectively employ it in a fight requires extreme timing. It should be learned after BLJ. It should not be done on multiple strikes in a row. You should only use it in every 3rd strike when doing Single Striking drills.

Unicorn/ Lin in Yin Style Bagua, functions like high level Taijiquan should. Only the frame is totally different than Chen style. It’s narrower and it’s attacking method is more rotational while the arms move in a vertical plane. But like Chen Taijiquan, it primarily uses FLJ in order to Stick and Adhere.

But with the Chinese not willing to teach foreigners how to Fali, and they might have to defend themselves against fellow Chinese if they do teach it, what you end up with is Chinese Chen Taijiquan people using mostly FLJ, which is really difficult to learn first, and zero to none, explanations as to what is happening when they’re moving their tailbone, lumbar and Dantian to emit power.

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[D_Glenn]

So I’m going to start making some videos on how to Fali, using BLJ. Primarily for YSB and Chen Taijiquan. It should be in Xingyquan, but I don’t know how to incorporate their stepping method, so that won’t be focused on. (I’ve literally only found 1 video of some Chinese Xingyiquan guys briefly but explicitly demonstrating Fali and using BLJ and FLJ. I will have to try and upload that on my channel.)

A quick note on why FLJ shouldn’t be practiced a lot- because you’re untucking your tailbone and trying to create a downward moving wave, and this pulling is slightly lengthening all the tissues and vitals that are situated and nestled in front of your lumbar spine. This area is known as the Chong Meridian. There’s a lot of major blood vessels in this area, well everything that a strong and solid Lower Dantian is trying to protect. Me, when I was young and dumb, I was like, I don’t believe in the warning, so I was just practicing FLJ, trying to learn the mechanics and timing, doing it my typical line drills, consecutively. I think I did this for maybe a half hour one day and then about 20 minutes the next day, when blam, I got a deep spasm and persistent cramping in my abdomen. Right in the area of the Chong Meridian. Mind you I had no idea of what the Chong Meridian was at this time. I had no idea of what the bad results would be or how they would manifest. So it wasn’t psychosomatic. All I knew was the warning. I learned everything else about what happened later on. I suffered with this persistent cramping for about 30 hours straight before it just dissipated on its own. But that scared me so much that it would be a good 8 years before I tried it again.

Here’s a quick video I filmed of a Crab Change from Ma Gui’s crab system. It’s a high level system based on Rooser and Unicorn, actually this is probably more similar to Chen Taijiquan because it’s frame is low, wide and more on a horizontal plane. This is the only thing I learned from it though. But in it, like the way Xingyiquan does, it strikes out using BLJ then immediately uses FLJ since the tailbone is already tucked under. These Crab strikes are Severing out, and then cause even more damage when Severing in reverse with the FLJ.
Edit- actually this is the no-brainer way to use FLJ, it might be sticky but it doesn’t matter because it’s just a striking after contact. High level FLJ is when it’s the very first thing you use in the intercepting movement at the start of a fight. I don’t know that I would ever be able to do it, but I have felt Jinbao use it against me back in ‘99. I was like Whoa! I want to learn that! He was like ‘Later, maybe’.



https://youtu.be/aRAtvXk27AI?si=OLe1VhW76cJhUJnm

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[D_Glenn]

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https://youtu.be/m4tNJxVwd9c?si=fEGqNmIM8jxYjQPN

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[BruceP]

From a tjq perspective, I like what you show of your practicing/training the method more than I do the Xingyiquan demo. Reason being, your elbows are forward of your midline, or at your midline, at all times whereas the Xyq guy is starting with his elbows behind his backline. Again, that's looking at it through a tai chi lens where the idea is that power is easily arrested/jammed when the elbows are starting rearward of the midline.

I was shown a very different method of training and practicing the same idea from what's shown in either of the videos you posted starting with the hands being kept below the diaphragm (shoulders-match-hips) while issuing, and progressing to where the hands are hitting at face height once there's good connection of hands-match-feet.

[origami_itto]

Again, that's looking at it through a tai chi lens where the idea is that power is easily arrested/jammed when the elbows are starting rearward of the midline.

This is an interesting observation to make. I agree that proper form would dictate you keep your elbows forward, but pretty early in the application of, and I really, REALLY hate the term, "internal" movement, that becomes a lot less true. When the power is coming from the dantien via the ground it doesn't really matter there, in my observation. Specifically like in fixed step pushing I will let them get there just to get them to over extend, and then issue.

[D_Glenn]

From a tjq perspective, I like what you show of your practicing/training the method more than I do the Xingyiquan demo. Reason being, your elbows are forward of your midline, or at your midline, at all times whereas the Xyq guy is starting with his elbows behind his backline. Again, that's looking at it through a tai chi lens where the idea is that power is easily arrested/jammed when the elbows are starting rearward of the midline.

I was shown a very different method of training and practicing the same idea from what's shown in either of the videos you posted starting with the hands being kept below the diaphragm (shoulders-match-hips) while issuing, and progressing to where the hands are hitting at face height once there's good connection of hands-match-feet.

Our Lion System is normally the first thing taught and the primary reason is that almost all of its strikes are executed differently than other martial systems, and this allows a person with previous martial art experience to compartmentalize the Lion and learn it from the ground up, or rather waist up. You won’t get the advantage of the momentum when the direction of the strike is parallel with the bones of your forearms, (like is happening in the Xingyiquan strikes) because the lion’s strikes are done where the force is perpendicular to the forearms. Which is helpful because it requires that the generation of the wave of flesh all needs to be coming from the waist (Yao) or rather the lumbar spine (Yaobu) and tailbone. And the strikes also require Zhuanhuan, which is the torquing power of your Transverse Abdominal muscles (TVA). Which requires learning how to contract only one side of your TVA. Similar to Nauli Kriya in yoga, only without the inward collapsing of your abdomen. Having a strong Dantian will keep your abdomen pressed outward and allow your TVA to contract around the curved surface and actually Turn your Waist side to side (Zhuanhuan). (You only need to have a strong Dantian when you’re practicing. It can switch from solid to relaxed. Meaning that you should be able to do Nauli Kriya, only you don’t want to practice it like Yoga people do. You only need to be able to demonstrate it. But all the learning of it is done while practicing Zhuanhuan.)

So the Lion system allows a person to learn the two functions of the TVA and utilize them to create a better martial striking power. 1. Zhuanhuan 2. Bolangjin which is learning how to access the extreme isometric strength of your TVA and turn your Lumbar spine into a Bow that can Spring and create an upward wave of flesh moving. This happens a split second before your strike lands.


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[D_Glenn]

I like to compare learning how to use the TVA muscles and the lumbar to do the Bolangjin movement to how you have to learn to “Ollie” or jump the board up on a skateboard. The goal is to move yourself and the board upwards as high as you can, but in order to do this you have to first, quickly thrust the tail of the board downward. Moving something in the opposite direction and a split second before the rest of the movement. The faster and crisper you can get the tail down and pop or snap it off the ground, the higher you can get the board to go up.

And like Skateboarding, the amount of time you have to spend practicing is roughly equal. And the day to day frustration is similar.

Being able to actually use Bolangjin in a fight is probably roughly equal to the amount of time it takes to be able to do a 360 degree kickflip down 3 stairs provided you’re practicing and progressing everyday.

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[JessOBrien]

Hi D_Glenn, thanks for all your insights into the Yin Fu system as taught by Dr. Xie. I used to love reading about him in the old Pa Kua Chang Journal. There's so much inside the system.
In one issue of PKCJ there is listed a set called: Ba Gua 8 Animals Linked Form.
I once learned an 8 animal ba gua set that had 8 postures you would hold, and walk with, one at a time. Supposedly from the Yin Fu line.
Do you know if there is any video of Dr. Xie's 8 Animal Linked Form?
I'm hoping to compare it to what I learned and what I've seen in He Jin Han's book about Yin Fu bagua.
I love comparing old bagua forms and sets.
Thanks for any suggestions!

Jess O

[D_Glenn]

No, haven’t seen it yet. But I’m pretty sure to get any practical usage of the form that it would require a lot of years of practice. Each animal has its own 8 methods that go from ‘easy, but not lethal’ to ‘require more fighting skill and practice, and more dangerous to the opponent. And the transitions, or changes, all work within the technique and strengths of that animal. It’s self contained but specializing in one set of skills. Then you might learn a different animal. But to then link 2 animals requires a lot of skill but only in figuring out what is appropriate. But with smooth transitions. Like the 4 corners thing in the other thread. You don’t want the linking to be like driving a wagon with square tires, just bouncing on 4 corners. It needs to be smooth. Jinbao is actually starting to teach this. So, like everything in the Yin stuff, the traditional form will have a lot of information on the process, but it has to be unpacked and taught in combos. So that’s how he’s going about teaching it. All 8 animals are being taught now but nobody is really grasping the Qilin system. Snake is insane, Rooster is crazy. One guy living in China focusing on the monkey which is mostly kicking and countering kicks. The qilin is sort of like Chuo Jiao. So the potential for that form to come out is there.

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