tight and exact vs loose and free (bagua quesiton)

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

tight and exact vs loose and free (bagua quesiton)

Postby mixjourneyman on Tue Oct 14, 2008 12:53 pm

throughout my training I have gotten to wondering what practice method (for forms) yields the best results.
To my mind there are two ways to go. You can either try to make your movements as exact as they can be or you can make your movements big, expressive, and free.
I'm taking the route of making my movements as tight and exact as possible, but I do see benefits to moving in a less constrained manner.
What are your thoughts?

Should these two ideas be practiced on their own? Or can they be combined at some point.
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Re: tight and exact vs loose and free (bagua quesiton)

Postby GrahamB on Tue Oct 14, 2008 12:57 pm

Big in the beginning, small after.
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Re: tight and exact vs loose and free (bagua quesiton)

Postby mixjourneyman on Tue Oct 14, 2008 12:59 pm

GrahamB wrote:Big in the beginning, small after.


Thats certainly what a lot of people say, but then you look at guys like Feng Zhiqiang (sorry for bringing taiji into this), who moves in huge, expansive movements that look like they have no definition. And Feng throws people around in ph like a bad mofo.
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Re: tight and exact vs loose and free (bagua quesiton)

Postby qiphlow on Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:16 pm

you should practice your forms as you were taught, so you can drill the "proper" mechanics and subtleties. but you should also play around a bit also, because there's more than one way to skin a cat.
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Re: tight and exact vs loose and free (bagua quesiton)

Postby Josealb on Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:23 pm

Try tight and exact, then bend/stretch/shrink/expand/lengthen/whatever....then go back to tight and exact. In my little experience, i find that if you play with something and try different changes, then go back to the standard, its a better standard than before.
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Re: tight and exact vs loose and free (bagua quesiton)

Postby Josealb on Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:27 pm

BUT...i know of some people that played too much and forgot their way home.
Last edited by Josealb on Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: tight and exact vs loose and free (bagua quesiton)

Postby Darthwing Teorist on Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:33 pm

GrahamB wrote:Big in the beginning, small after.


And then you go to sleep. ;D
И ам тхе террор тхат флапс ин тхе нигхт! И ам тхе црамп тхат руинс ёур форм! И ам... ДАРКWИНГ ДУЦК!
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Re: tight and exact vs loose and free (bagua quesiton)

Postby mixjourneyman on Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:39 pm

Darthwing Teorist wrote:
GrahamB wrote:Big in the beginning, small after.


And then you go to sleep. ;D


Actually, I believe you take a shower and then go to sleep.
Or at least thats what they tell me.... ;D
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Re: tight and exact vs loose and free (bagua quesiton)

Postby GrahamB on Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:51 pm

Nah, you haven't got the energy for a shower. You just want to sleep. One day all this will become clear ;)
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Re: tight and exact vs loose and free (bagua quesiton)

Postby mixjourneyman on Tue Oct 14, 2008 2:21 pm

GrahamB wrote:Nah, you haven't got the energy for a shower. You just want to sleep. One day all this will become clear ;)


lol, check the sig.... :P ;D
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Re: tight and exact vs loose and free (bagua quesiton)

Postby Chris McKinley on Tue Oct 14, 2008 2:50 pm

mix,

RE: "throughout my training I have gotten to wondering what practice method (for forms) yields the best results.". Best results for what objective?

First of all, big and small have absolutely nothing to do with exact or free. In fact, in my case, the big stuff is where I tend to practice the exacting approach since everything is magnified and none of my mistakes can hide from analysis. Generally, the two approaches represent the classical and the Swimming Dragon methods of practice.

IMO, both should be practiced on their own and should definitely be combined at some point, especially with regard to application. As fun (and as supremely functional) as the freer stuff can be, never foresake the exacting formal practice though. It is and will remain your guage and the belweather for how much your movement conforms to the principles.
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Re: tight and exact vs loose and free (bagua quesiton)

Postby mixjourneyman on Tue Oct 14, 2008 3:11 pm

Thanks Chris, for the info.
When I say small movement, what I actually mean is very finite movement within a larger movement. Things like overturning both hands so that they arrive at the exact same time as each other and things of that like. Is that the kind of stuff you are referring to in your exacting of big movements, or something else?

best

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Re: tight and exact vs loose and free (bagua quesiton)

Postby Chris McKinley on Tue Oct 14, 2008 3:23 pm

Yep, that's what I'm talking about, among other things. Since there is no such thing as absolute precision in a real fight no matter who you are, the point of such exacting practice represents a form of overlearning. You ingrain such fine atttention to detail so that when a real situation arises and Murphy comes along to take his cut off the top, you're still left with enough to get the job done.
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Re: tight and exact vs loose and free (bagua quesiton)

Postby GrahamB on Tue Oct 14, 2008 3:28 pm

If I say the words "natural movement" will shooter reply to this thread?
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Re: tight and exact vs loose and free (bagua quesiton)

Postby SteveBonzak on Tue Oct 14, 2008 3:36 pm

Big and open is for improving circulation and health, small and closed is for fighting. Practice both to be balanced.

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