Parallel feet

[Wuyizidi]

As for flexibility: before 1900's, before the modern firearm relegated traditional fighting skills obsolete, martial art in China was a very valuable skill. That skill is mostly practiced by professionals (how many non-professionals recreational assembly language programmers are are out there today?). These forms are core part of their training. And before they can do this, people had to go through rigorous basic training in all aspects of conditioning. It is assumed you can kiss your toe, that you can do single leg squats, etc, before you can do these forms.

It's like professional gymnastics, if you cannot do pull ups, you shouldn't even attempt the high bar. If you cannot do a wheel, you can't do backward tumbling in floor exercise. Remember, the forms you do now, these are the same forms people like Yang Luchan, Dong Haichuan, Guo Yunshen practiced. The flexibility and strength requirements are much higher than what an average person possesses. So if we cannot do something, we had to go back to basics to remedy it. We can't say, this form is too hard, can I make it easier? If we do that, we'll be practicing it at a lower level, maybe never understanding it. As in the example of foot being parallel, correct movement leads to correct feeling. Without correct feeling, we may never get the skills we're after.

Wuyizidi

[shawnsegler]

Truth.

S

[everything]

We can't say, this form is too hard, can I make it easier?

Thanks for the very precise explanations. Not really saying it's too hard for myself or anyone, just that some of the details of foot direction seem unclear and out of the ordinary. It seems that most ma use something like a bow stance, some use 90 degrees between the feet, some subset use parallel, and mainly bagua and some taiji use toe in. No idea about xingyi or other internals. Toe in is harder for me to do, but parallel also sticks out in my mind more partly because I just read a section of Bruce Frantzis' qigong book saying to do parallel feet for qigong (nothing about martial arts).

[Chris McKinley]

Unless you have a qualified instructor, don't bother worrying about the toe-in or toe-out steps of Baguazhang. Overly simplified, when you perform those steps, you don't do it the way it looks like you might. Lateral and medial stress is avoided in the knees and ankles, but it's not easy either to explain nor to perform.

[Dmitri]

Lateral and medial stress is avoided in the knees and ankles, but it's not easy either to explain nor to perform.

Yup, same in taijiquan.

[DeusTrismegistus]

We can't say, this form is too hard, can I make it easier?

Thanks for the very precise explanations. Not really saying it's too hard for myself or anyone, just that some of the details of foot direction seem unclear and out of the ordinary. It seems that most ma use something like a bow stance, some use 90 degrees between the feet, some subset use parallel, and mainly bagua and some taiji use toe in. No idea about xingyi or other internals. Toe in is harder for me to do, but parallel also sticks out in my mind more partly because I just read a section of Bruce Frantzis' qigong book saying to do parallel feet for qigong (nothing about martial arts).

My teacher says feet parallel for qigong as well.

For MA it depends on the purpose of the stance. Each stance is strong in different directions and has different purposes. Being able to naturally have the correct foot position in whatever stance you are using is really important for being powerful and balanced.

For me it is nearly impossible to do any toe in stance right now. Whether or not my duckfootedness is caused by bad posture or skeletal badness I don't know. I do know that there are certain things it allows me to do more easily than other people, and with my pigeon toed brother he can do things much more easily than me as well. There is defenitely value in learning how your normal body works and what that allows you to do easily and what it makes more difficult. However we still should keep the goal and ideal in mind and strive toward that.

[neijia_boxer]

I learned a great deal of push hands in Shanghai with a wu style group and the parallel feet thing was working and i was shown how it works physics wise. I go to an american park and push with cheng man ching people and it doesnt work so i have to use Yang PH tactics against them

[everything]

As far as goals, I would like to be comfortable in any stance and take up serious study of baguazhang, but that is a bit low on the priority list. More importantly, I'd like to avoid any stress of knees or ankles by achieving better hip joint ROM, to help with any activity such as miscellaneous sports with the kids.

I'd say my natural walking has gone from about 20 degrees pointed out, relative to a line between the feet, to about 5 degrees pointed out over the past few years. I would think "parallel" in my head, seriously think I had parallel going, look down, and my feet would still be pointed out a bit.

For qigong, I'll try being more mindful of parallel feet and see how it goes. Thanks a lot for the advice - I'm a little more motivated now to keep working at this...

[everything]

neijia_boxer, could you elaborate? why would parallel work in one push hands context and not the other?

[Muad'dib]

I am duck footed. Always have been

I am as well, but it never affected my IMA practice, because my teacher drilled in the small points (in her own unique way). I have recently been forcing myself to walk to 20 minutes daily instead of taking the subway with the purpose of correcting my daily walking habits. Within the first week, I noticed that I have muscle fatigue in my calves because my prior walking method was just schlepping along. I also noticed that my normal practice was coming easier, because the walking was adding strength to the muscles that I normally only used during practice. (Don't get me wrong, practice was strengthening them, but there is nothing like repetive use, in some cases.)

[AllanF]

In our Yang taiji our feet are always parallel. What Wuyizidi said is spot on and just to add, this is also so we can close the hips properly when releasing energy (fajin).

When you first start it feels weird and uncomfortable but over time your learn to relax the relevant parts and it feels more natural.

[EDIT: Doh just re-read Wuyizidi's post and he has already mentioned everything! ]

[Muad'dib]

You know, btw, I don't think being duck footed is related to flexibility. Even now at 36, I retain a high level of flexibility and have no difficulty keeping my feet parallel if I chose. So maybe, I am not actually duck footed, and I am just lazy?

[DeusTrismegistus]

You know, btw, I don't think being duck footed is related to flexibility. Even now at 36, I retain a high level of flexibility and have no difficulty keeping my feet parallel if I chose. So maybe, I am not actually duck footed, and I am just lazy?

Well I can open my hips really far naturally. The way I was taught as a child to do a side thrust kick was to have my standing foot pointing straight backwards. A lot of people can't do this. On the other hand some people can do the kcik with their foot pointing almost straight forward, which I can't come close to doing. I have a lot of flexibility for opening the hips but not for closing them. My teacher can do both. So I think flexibility plays a role but maybe it is years of laziness that makes us less flexible.

When you walk what do you focus on correcting? What about running?