Anti-striking

[johnwang]

why does the person waste time on deflecting 2 punches instead of just going forward straight away to close the distance?

The goal is to only allow your opponent to throw maximum 2 punches before you can get into clinch. If you only need to deflect 1 punch, or no punch, that will even be better. A strong head lock will require your opponent's other arm not to be locked along with his head (there will be too much space between your locking arm and his head). In order to make sure that his other arm won't be in your head lock moving path, it's better to wait until you can sense your opponent's 2nd punch and be able to feel where his arm will be before you make your final commitment.

It's like when you touch his

- right arm, you know where his right arm is.
- left arm, you know where his left arm is.

You then make your move after you have obtained such information.

[bartekb]

I see, thank you.
What you described is shown on movie 3?
I was mislead by the move where a person uses this kind of wedge to deflect multiple punches which I think its not too optimal.
Also there might be a problem with using the wedge when someone throws big overdead like that:

the fact that the fingers are interlocked so the hands are connected might limit the speed one can react to it?
Is your Idea with the wedge to create a subsystem where A > B > C or more like a tree where youve got multiple options?

[johnwang]

By using the "crazy monkey", his hands is closer to his own head. This will give his opponent plenty of space to generate his power and speed in his punch. You have to deal with the ending of a powerful and fast punch. In the "big fist" approach, your hands is closer to your opponent's head. You don't give your opponent enough space to generate his power and speed. You only have to deal with a less powerful, less speed punches during the initial stage. It's "to fight the battle in your territory vs. to fight battle in your opponent's territory". Instead of to guard your own head, you try to use "big fist" to go through your opponent's guard. The "big fist" strategy is more aggressive than the "crazy monkey".

Also in order to get into clinch, your hands should be as close to your opponent's head as possible.

[bartekb]

By using the "crazy monkey", his hands is closer to his own head. This will give his opponent plenty of space to generate his power and speed in his punch. You have to deal with the ending of a powerful and fast punch

thats very true - crazy monkey hands have to be accompanied by closing the distance quick - in one of his fights Frank Shamrock KOd a guy by kicking through this kind of guard - and breaking the persons forearm. Ive been punched by certain mr D whilst covering like that strong enough to knock me out cold.

In the "big fist" approach, your hands is closer to your opponent's head.

My first reaction I think if someone approache me like that wold be to either reach forward with me leading arm and drag the wedge down and to the side whilst punching with the other or fake a high punch (out of range but still will make the other person elevate the guard I think) and forward kick.

I'll test your strategy tuesday - but I wont interlock my fingers:) in case I need my hands against a quick double

[johnwang]

I see, thank you.
What you described is shown on movie 3?
I was mislead by the move where a person uses this kind of wedge to deflect multiple punches which I think its not too optimal.
Also there might be a problem with using the wedge when someone throws big overdead like that:

the fact that the fingers are interlocked so the hands are connected might limit the speed one can react to it?
Is your Idea with the wedge to create a subsystem where A > B > C or more like a tree where youve got multiple options?

If you can't block your opponent's punch with your "shield", you definitely won't be able to block your opponent's punch without the shield. If your opponent can hit your head when you hide your head behind your big fist, he will hit your head much easily when you are not using your big fist.

[bartekb]

If you can't block your opponent's punch with your "shield", you definitely won't be able to block your opponent's punch without the shield.

crazy monkey hands will require you to close the distance or be in close distance - it will be silly with long distance.
What I meant with the example - if you mentally wait for a second punch before you close the distance whilst holding your shield you might be surprised by 1st - is there a way to go from kick range straight to grapple?
isnt your own strategy with front kick safer than your shield strategy?

[Wanderingdragon]

Gee wiz guys, the BIGFIST , gives up at least 18" in reach by tying two hands together, at the same time giving up shoulder extension. Just fake high kick low and destroy the whole strategy.

[Taste of Death]

To defeat the big fist one need not attack the fist nor head but rather the arms. The big fist also creates a big frame. Throw a full body punch, moving one's entire mass, both into and over the bicep toward the opponent's center. With a left hand/arm strike against the right side of the big fist one's fist goes just over the biceps but the forearm crashes into it sending the opponent back. This can be done with either arm on either side. Using the same-side arm would be forearm versus forearm and means one's second punch will be delivered to the side of the body, out of the way of the big fist.

[Wanderingdragon]

HAHA!!! I'm no fan of the strategy, but used properly, BIGFIST will bounce you out of that attack with a smile.

[Taste of Death]

HAHA!!! I'm no fan of the strategy, but used properly, BIGFIST will bounce you out of that attack with a smile.

In my Yi Quan class we use the big fist to hold a solid frame. It makes it easier to move someone when they are in a big fist posture rather than bao, where the hands are not joined together

[johnwang]

isnt your own strategy with front kick safer than your shield strategy?

The front kick is used to enter the kicking range. The big fist is used to enter the punching range and get into the clinching range. Both have different purpose. When you use "crazy monkey", you still have "striker" in mind. Since your arms is close to you and bend, you can still punch out. When you use big fist, since your arms are already straight, you can only use your body momentum behind your punch. You can't even rotate your body.

The "big fist" strategy came from the Shuai Chiao "straight arms". It's called "黄瓜架(Huang Gua Jia) - cucumber frame". I prefer to call it "double spears". The "big fist" protect center from inside out. The "double spears" protect center from outside in.

[bartekb]

Mr Wang

The front kick is used to enter the kicking range.

http://youtu.be/DIxSyp8nAUQ?t=25s
thats how I assumed it would work (its random example from the internet), the guy kicks the moment opponent enters kicking range - then using the fact the opponent is immobilised for a split second shortens the distance straight to clinch. Even if the opponent throws any punch in the meantime it will be lacking power.
the rest seems very sensible, I wish you luck and be interested in seeing the strategy tested agains strikers. I'll try it myself:)

[everything]

why aren't we talking about the similarity to the old gracie strategy? the goal is the take down to ground range. side or front kick. a stance that looks like big fist. clinch, takedown, choke. I tried to find a rickson picture but didn't

[johnwang]

why aren't we talking about the similarity to the old gracie strategy? the goal is the take down to ground range. side or front kick. a stance that looks like big fist. clinch, takedown, choke. I tried to find a rickson picture but didn't

I have never seen Gracie used "head lock" in all his fight.

The "head lock" requires "double upward separate hands" that you separate both of your opponent's arms from inside out. The "big fist" will force your both arms to be between your opponent's arms. You first define your goal, you then find your path to reach to your goal. If your goal is "single leg" or "double legs", You may want to use "double downward separate hands". It will force you to use "double spears" instead.

Your should use different "entering strategy" for different "finish strategy". The big fist is just one of many "entering strategies".