Try to understand how people in other styles may do

[johnwang]

I don't understand why some people always like to keep their MA discussion "pure within their own style". Most of the time, the guy you have to fight in the street will not be a guy from your same system. You will need to know how people in other styles may think and train in order to be able to deal with them effectively.

I'll be more interest to know how a MT guy uses his double neck tie than a wrestler does. The reason is simple. I know how a wrestler will do, but I don't know how a MT guy will do. To be able to deal with a MT guy's knee during clinch is extreme interest to me.

Your thought?

[edededed]

Certainly, it is a good idea to know how people from certain styles fight...

For example, if you live in Thailand, learning about Muay Thai sounds like a good idea
On the other hand, the chance of bumping into a hop gar guy may be very low, so it may not be a good use of time to learn about hop gar (just an example)...

[Taste of Death]

That's a question for external practitioners like yourself. To me it does not matter what the other guy knows or how he does it. I just go through him like he's not there.

[yeniseri]

An excellent point! That is why BJJ training and physical conditioning usually stands out above the rest in MA in general. I am not saying that BJJ is the best but its realistic training can usually surpass many styles along with the ability to which it can be incorporated into any system. p.s. I am not a BJJ person but I see strong value and conditioning in how they train. The body of BJJ, is ne-waza of old school!

If your system is strong then one only need to know the following:
1. He will definitely hit my face:
2. He will kick

The main question is: How do I respond in a way that is effective? Plus, when I am finished with the fellow (after I thrown him to the ground), while he come back for more meaning I was not effective enough, or he will have enough doubt whwew he will back away and then figure out what happened. I am talking learning and exchanging information not some otherworldly stuff! Just saying

[wayne hansen]

So let me get this right
If you come up against a style you have never seen your art is useless
I have known street fighters with no training at all who just dig in and get the job done.

[johnwang]

Sun Zi said, "If you know yourself and you also know your opponent, you will win. If you only know yourself but you don't know your opponent, you will lose."

[Lu da]

BJJ is sport fighting. They train to fight other sport fighters. Their level of realism is equal to boxing. Boxing is great but it is sport fighting and not the same as a full contact, no holds barred, drop down, drag out, spit in your eye street fight. Sport fighting takes all of the chaos of fighting, the unpredictability, the dangerousness of it, and it tries to contain just a portion of it in a box. Everything outside of that box is not part of that sport fighting and is therefore a wasted effort to train. Sport fighters csn be excellent athletes and their training can be good conditioning. It can be of value to use some of their training methods from time to time but to focus on that method puts your training in a box far from the chaos of a real fight. Here is a very simple example for you. In BJJ the guard is a very strong possition and a person might train a great deal to go in to that possition, but it's a bad place to be on asphalt which is a cheese grater for human flesh.

As far as the original question goes I think it's a mistake to make assumptions about your opponent or have expectations. Since we are quoting sun zi I will include this one "all warfare is deception."

[yeniseri]

BJJ is sport fighting. They train to fight other sport fighters. Their level of realism is equal to boxing. Boxing is great but it is sport fighting and not the same as a full contact, no holds barred, drop down, drag out, spit in your eye street fight. Sport fighting takes all of the chaos of fighting, the unpredictability, the dangerousness of it, and it tries to contain just a portion of it in a box. Everything outside of that box is not part of that sport fighting and is therefore a wasted effort to train. Sport fighters csn be excellent athletes and their training can be good conditioning. It can be of value to use some of their training methods from time to time but to focus on that method puts your training in a box far from the chaos of a real fight. Here is a very simple example for you. In BJJ the guard is a very strong possition and a person might train a great deal to go in to that possition, but it's a bad place to be on asphalt which is a cheese grater for human flesh.

As far as the original question goes I think it's a mistake to make assumptions about your opponent or have expectations. Since we are quoting sun zi I will include this one "all warfare is deception."

All I am saying is look at the concept and totality of BJJ as a stage or level of conditioning as opposed to BJJ as you are looking at it now! Put another way the 'ne-waza' (ground sport, ground conditions, the corresponsing submissions, grapple strategy, etc of concept through conditioning stagtes, is far superior to CMA forms in themselves, what most people do consistently (the majority as opposed to the few ) and not the core "martial" (for lack of another term of usage and utility) requirements that complements it (CMA). It is true that all warfare is deception but the many have a false view of themselves and their strategy can be seen through easily so there is really no deception except self deception in this regard.

Knowing oneself (strength/deficiencies vis a vis that of my 'enemy') is central to betterment, if that is what one is truly looking for!

[RickMatz]

BJJ is sport fighting. They train to fight other sport fighters. Their level of realism is equal to boxing. Boxing is great but it is sport fighting and not the same as a full contact, no holds barred, drop down, drag out, spit in your eye street fight. Sport fighting takes all of the chaos of fighting, the unpredictability, the dangerousness of it, and it tries to contain just a portion of it in a box. Everything outside of that box is not part of that sport fighting and is therefore a wasted effort to train. Sport fighters csn be excellent athletes and their training can be good conditioning. It can be of value to use some of their training methods from time to time but to focus on that method puts your training in a box far from the chaos of a real fight. Here is a very simple example for you. In BJJ the guard is a very strong possition and a person might train a great deal to go in to that possition, but it's a bad place to be on asphalt which is a cheese grater for human flesh.

As far as the original question goes I think it's a mistake to make assumptions about your opponent or have expectations. Since we are quoting sun zi I will include this one "all warfare is deception."

But would you put your money on a MMA/BJJ/Boxer or a TCMA guy in a street fight.

Full disclosure: I''ve been training at an MMA gym for the past month and am taking my first BJJ lesson today.

[Lu da]

Depends on the fighter. I personally have seen an MMA fighter (amateur) sitting on top of someone punching and miss and punch the concrete. Instinctive reliance on techniques that work exclusively in sport fighting is not necessarily an advantage.

[shawnsegler]

That's a question for external practitioners like yourself. To me it does not matter what the other guy knows or how he does it. I just go through him like he's not there.

External...

[GrahamB]

BJJ is sport fighting. They train to fight other sport fighters. Their level of realism is equal to boxing. Boxing is great but it is sport fighting and not the same as a full contact, no holds barred, drop down, drag out, spit in your eye street fight. Sport fighting takes all of the chaos of fighting, the unpredictability, the dangerousness of it, and it tries to contain just a portion of it in a box. Everything outside of that box is not part of that sport fighting and is therefore a wasted effort to train. Sport fighters csn be excellent athletes and their training can be good conditioning. It can be of value to use some of their training methods from time to time but to focus on that method puts your training in a box far from the chaos of a real fight. Here is a very simple example for you. In BJJ the guard is a very strong possition and a person might train a great deal to go in to that possition, but it's a bad place to be on asphalt which is a cheese grater for human flesh.

As far as the original question goes I think it's a mistake to make assumptions about your opponent or have expectations. Since we are quoting sun zi I will include this one "all warfare is deception."

But would you put your money on a MMA/BJJ/Boxer or a TCMA guy in a street fight.

Full disclosure: I''ve been training at an MMA gym for the past month and am taking my first BJJ lesson today.

Good luck with the BJJ first lesson Rick! - Let us know how you got on on the Deep Butterfly Half Guard thread in the videos section. (It's a better place to put bjj talk).

[pennsooner]

Although I don't think there is anything wrong with learning some technical aspects of a smattering of styles a couple of thoughts.

1. Time is short. Its all I can do to be competent in one style, maybe two. Pick a style that plays to your strengths, if you have a choice.

2. Most skilled Martial Artist these days don't go around getting in fights, just far too much of a zero sum game. The more skilled you are the WORSE you are likely to get hurt if you are beaten. And anyone can be beaten.

The art that scares me the most I know of no real counter to other than run . The art of the flying lead pellet.

[Wanderingdragon]

Ah! american dim mak, in the news every day.

[Orpheus]

BJJ is sport fighting. They train to fight other sport fighters. Their level of realism is equal to boxing. Boxing is great but it is sport fighting and not the same as a full contact, no holds barred, drop down, drag out, spit in your eye street fight. Sport fighting takes all of the chaos of fighting, the unpredictability, the dangerousness of it, and it tries to contain just a portion of it in a box. Everything outside of that box is not part of that sport fighting and is therefore a wasted effort to train. Sport fighters csn be excellent athletes and their training can be good conditioning. It can be of value to use some of their training methods from time to time but to focus on that method puts your training in a box far from the chaos of a real fight. Here is a very simple example for you. In BJJ the guard is a very strong possition and a person might train a great deal to go in to that possition, but it's a bad place to be on asphalt which is a cheese grater for human flesh.

As far as the original question goes I think it's a mistake to make assumptions about your opponent or have expectations. Since we are quoting sun zi I will include this one "all warfare is deception."

You call it a box, I call it a skill set.

So, based on your last paragraph, are you arguing that a person should not expose themselves to a variety of styles?