Try to understand how people in other styles may do

[NoSword]

@dspyrido:

I get where you're coming from and I certainly wouldn't disagree that sport fighting is a far cry from a real life-or-death situation. But my eyes start to glaze over when I hear the usual RSBD lines about why you shouldn't spar or participate in sport fighting because you might develop "bad habits" etc. If someone is saying that you will actually be worse off in a street altercation for having trained in BJJ, boxing etc. I am calling bullshit. It's just another version of "our skillz are too deadly..."

I don't understand why the RSBD folks are so concerned about what you can't and shouldn't do to prepare for violence rather than what you can and should do. Sport fighting trains a range of attributes that are useful in real life situations; it is easily accessible and can be trained at high levels of intensity. Why wouldn't you want to interact with sport fighters as much as you can? Once you can hang with those guys, then we can talk about how to modify and bias that training toward RSBD rather than combat sport.

I understand that's not exactly the argument you're making. However, my point is, I think sport fighting is good for more than just "fun" even if your ultimate objectives are self-protection. If you cannot last 3 minutes with a competent sport fighter in your weight class (lest we forget, this is the reality for most traditional/recreational martial artists), in a street situation you're fucked.

Steve Morris has some good things to say on this subject.

AK

[Ba-men]

I don't understand why the RSBD folks are so concerned about what you can't and shouldn't do to prepare for violence rather than what you can and should do. Sport fighting trains a range of attributes that are useful in real life situations; it is easily accessible and can be trained at high levels of intensity. Why wouldn't you want to interact with sport fighters as much as you can? Once you can hang with those guys, then we can talk about how to modify and bias that training toward RSBD rather than combat sport.

I second this. I think its the only way to develop. What we all are really talking about is critical "real time" thinking skills, in which one already has all the prerequisite to implement the tactical. I can't think of a better way to train your brain. Sooner or later one has to move into the "improvising phase." Here is where you find the metaphysical side of it all. The ability to out think your opponent. The notion that in a street fight there is no time to to be critical thinking? That is correct, but that is why one trains to do it in real time. While your opponent isn't you are.

[Lu da]

Nosword,

I understand what you are saying and you really do have some good points. Sports fighters are very likely to want to spar and sparring is good training and fun. I just get frustrated with the no groin strikes, no biting, no eye gouging, single digit manipulation, or head butting. Yes I understand the safety concerns related to using such techniques. What really frustrates me is that people I've sparred with who were interested in sport fighting could care less if they were in a position for me to use those techniques. It's little things like when you have someone's back and you are reaching around to put a rear naked on them. If you move your forearm in front of their face you should be prepared to have a piece of it bitten off. Sure go for the choke, but be careful where your arm is.

[dspyrido]

I understand that's not exactly the argument you're making. However, my point is, I think sport fighting is good for more than just "fun" even if your ultimate objectives are self-protection. If you cannot last 3 minutes with a competent sport fighter in your weight class (lest we forget, this is the reality for most traditional/recreational martial artists), in a street situation you're fucked.

As you said - that was not my point. I like sparring & recommend cross training with anyone you can find be it RBSD, grapplers, strikers, weapons experts & old brawlers. Whatever you can learn from.

But the statement around the 3 minutes is where the problems start. I can spar with guys continuously for a lot longer but cannot think of one real fight I was in or even witnessed that lasted for as long as 3 minutes. Even the all in brawls barely lasted 2 minutes but the knockouts & ambulances where very real.

Now is the attribute training great in sports styles? It sure is. But the street killer does not normally look like the six pack tribal tat mma fighter. They don't last 3 minutes rounds yet they know what they are doing & in general it is about not following the rules. The sports styles don't teach you these things & in fact are detrimental in that they produce a false confidence & sometimes force bad habits.

For example people are learning to take up a guard, dance around, look for weaknesses, throw a punch kick routine & then close in & do a take down & aim for the submission. Bullshit! A smart street killer will not let you see them posing a threat. They will smile apologise turn away while reaching for a weapon. They will remember your face or the location, make a call & arrange an ambush. This is the sort of stuff I am recommending people don't ignore & assume that knowing an americano or being able to throw a superman punch is what is required in self protection.

[NoSword]

What really frustrates me is that people I've sparred with who were interested in sport fighting could care less if they were in a position for me to use those techniques.

Why do you care whether they care?

So long you see the opening, recognize it, and consciously inhibit your response, you are grooving the right pathways for using that technique in a real situation. There's no need to prove to your partner that you "won" the exchange.

With practice, sparring with sport fighters can become quite comical, because for every symbolic win they score, you've already identified multiple instances in which they were completely defenseless against a street technique. Keep it to yourself and let them have their win.

The challenge in working with sport fighters is learning how to use them as training partners without yourself becoming one of them. You do have to give them a run for their money and make them fight for their wins, even when you're allowing them to dominate. Otherwise they won't want to play with you. But with practice, that should be no problem. The more I work with sport fighters the more positive feedback I get, usually along the lines of, "WTF are you doing? I haven't seen that...that feels different..." etc. And they win less and less, even though I'm abiding by their ruleset and playing their game. (Don't get me wrong, they still win plenty.)

Remember that if you were allowed to use street techniques, they would be able to as well. Not to mention the fact that they wouldn't have to respect your tap. Is that what you want? Of course, there's always the Dog Brothers...

AK