Try to understand how people in other styles may do

[kshurika]

Lu da wrote:

BJJ is sport fighting. They train to fight other sport fighters. Their level of realism is equal to boxing. Boxing is great but it is sport fighting and not the same as a full contact, no holds barred, drop down, drag out, spit in your eye street fight.

Thanks for letting us know that you've never had any BJJ training or boxing training of any kind. Now, with those obvious "sport" styles removed (and everyone knows that Helio Gracie and Jack Dempsey couldn't fight worth a damn) what style do you recommend for the chaos of the streets?

Taiji?

[Lu da]

Fanatical devotion to the idea that sport fighting is fighting does not make it an truer. Dempsey and Gracie are both great at what they do and I am in no way saying they are not tremendous athletes and experts in their given fields. That being said, what does Dempsey know about protecting his knee from a kick? I don't know but I can assure you that boxing didn't teach him anything about it, and the more time he spends on boxing the less time he trains to defend a kick to his knee.

Gracie might have phenomenal situational awareness and may have the wherewithal to not go down on his back on asphalt but he didn't learn that from a sport that uses it's safety equipment (mats) to it's advantage.

Sport fighting is cool and all and I'm sure many sport fighters can and do make sucessful street fighters. Because of the reliance on rules and safety certain techniques are not allowed and are therefore not defended against. A stance that doesn't protect the groin is a good example.

I hear the argument that sport fighting is better because you train the way you 'fight' (in relation to the sport). It is he reliance on rules and safety equipment to lead the evolution of technique that forces sport fighters to train with skills that may also be a disadvantage in a real fight.

Having trained in both BJJ and boxing I understand the value of learning some of their skills and I can appreciate the intensity of their sparring. That being said I think the argument that sport fighting is a superior style has very little merit.

[MaartenSFS]

I think a bit of cross-training in styles with different strategies and techniques to our own is a good idea, not to learn their way, but to expose us to new ways we can be attacked. My teacher says yhat it doesn't matter what they do. Just defend, wait for an opening and finish them. That is, if you didn't attack first..

[jaime_g]

That being said, what does Dempsey know about protecting his knee from a kick? I don't know but I can assure you that boxing didn't teach him anything about it, and the more time he spends on boxing the less time he trains to defend a kick to his knee

.

Are you serious? Dempsey was also a street fighter (brawls for money) , worked as bodyguard , trained wrestling, judo, participated in WWII, and co-authored a close-quarters hand-to-hand combat book.

[Lu da]

That being said, what does Dempsey know about protecting his knee from a kick? I don't know but I can assure you that boxing didn't teach him anything about it, and the more time he spends on boxing the less time he trains to defend a kick to his knee

.

Are you serious? Dempsey was also a street fighter (brawls for money) , worked as bodyguard , trained wrestling, judo, participated in WWII, and co-authored a close-quarters hand-to-hand combat book.

"I don't know but I can assure you that boxing didn't teach him anything about it"

[kshurika]

Lu da:

Okay, Dempsey, Gracie and others were just sportsmen who didn't really know the streets (as you seem to). Tyson would always wear those fruity padded covers on his fists ("gloves", I believe they're called). Come to think of it, so do those UFC sissies. NFL and NHL players are all covered up like cowards, which befits their wimpy, girlish sports.


I was wondering if you could share with us your tried-and-true formula for successful chaotic, steel-biting street fighting. Styles? Training methods? Nutrition? Health insurance?


Hurry with that answer. I want to badass up as soon as possible.

[Wanderingdragon]

have a fight

[johnwang]

I have always believed that our training should be able to deal with "at least" the following issues:

- boxer's punches.
- MT guy's round house kick.
- TKD guy's side kick.
- wrestler's single leg, double legs.
- Judo guy's hip throw.
- BJJ guy's arm bar, choke.

We should have separate training drills to deal with those issues.

[Lu da]

Kshurika,

Perhaps you should go back and read what I wrote again. My statement was regarding sport specific training and the disadvantage of it on a fighters ability to adjust to a street fight. In my comments I never challenged anyone's ability to do anything. What I said specifically was that boxing never taught Dempsey to defend against a knee kick. He might have been very good at defending against it but he didn't learn it from boxing.

I never inferred or implied in an way that anyone was or wasn't a good fighter.

Gloves are a perfect example of a sport fighter using safety equipment to their advantage. Why do MMA fighters wear gloves? To protect their when they strike their opponent. This allows them to strike harder and more often. Why does this matter? Because if you practice hitting things without concern for the bones in your hands because of safety equipment you will be in for a big surprise when you punch things without the gloves.

[Niall Keane]

Kshurika,


Gloves are a perfect example of a sport fighter using safety equipment to their advantage. Why do MMA fighters wear gloves? To protect their when they strike their opponent. This allows them to strike harder and more often. Why does this matter? Because if you practice hitting things without concern for the bones in your hands because of safety equipment you will be in for a big surprise when you punch things without the gloves.

Ah, no! gloves prevent cuts to the opponent! So fights last longer and you therefore get more practice ;-)

In Ireland we have a game called Hurling, fastest game in the world, it involves a leather clad wooden ball travelling at 180 miles an hour in what could be described as 3D hockey. Now the lads use ash hurls and the exchanges can get a bit rough. So all in all to save from unnecessary injury, athletes wear head protection.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/hurling ... 34617.html

Now you could train how to hit a ball with a stick without the head gear and be careful not to "brain" your opponent or knock him over, and cancel out the fully resisting character of the game, but that wouldn't be hurling, there is a word for that actually - GOLF!

[Lu da]

They do prevent cuts to the opponent as well.

I'm not saying safety equipment is not a good idea. It certainly allows young athletes to become old athletes. I'm saying safety equipment and rules providing for the safety of sport fighters lead to evolutions in techniques that would not be a functional evolution in regular fighting.

[Niall Keane]

yes and I'm saying they are a necessary "evil" without which you get golf practice. Can't even see Tiger Woods last 30 seconds in hurling!

[wayne hansen]

Now your talking the real thing
A mad Irishman with a stick
Bring out the
Shelalie

[Dajenarit]

I have always believed that our training should be able to deal with "at least" the following issues:

- boxer's punches.
- MT guy's round house kick.
- TKD guy's side kick.
- wrestler's single leg, double legs.
- Judo guy's hip throw.
- BJJ guy's arm bar, choke.

We should have separate training drills to deal with those issues.

Thats reasonable. You should be able to handle the best techniques from most major styles if you wanna call yourself competent.

[Lu da]

yes and I'm saying they are a necessary "evil" without which you get golf practice. Can't even see Tiger Woods last 30 seconds in hurling!

They are necessary to provide an environment where an athlete has a chance of one day becoming an old athlete. That being said, safety equipment and rules that provide for safety allow athletes to evolve their technique to rely on safety equipment. I'll give another example, leading with the head in football.