Touchy subject... Jing related?

[Interloper]

Spooge (that's the technical term) is related to the kidneys in TCM, which also govern the knees-- ejaculating is what diminishes the jing, how you get there is somewhat less important. The kidneys are your energy reserves for when you get older, so frequent wanking along with other factors like diet and stress/worry/neurosis combined together could cause problems. But the whole idea of TCM is balance, not puritanical adherence to mystical doctrine. So if you used to wank it a lot, just eat some vegetables and forget about it. If you still wank it a lot, eat MORE vegetables, have less stress, and go see an acupuncturist if you're really worried about it.

FYI, I'm not a TCM doctor, but I play one on the internet.

Don't Taoists believe that you should never let yourself ejaculate because losing semen means a loss of jing, in that belief system?

Jing aside, I would have thought that problems with the knees would be more related to having too much two-person sex. Knee problems = Yang, while back problems = Yin. Based on using the old-fashioned Missionary Position, that is.

[Chris Fleming]

Yeah, always practice the direct transmission!

[Bhassler]

Don't Taoists believe that you should never let yourself ejaculate because losing semen means a loss of jing, in that belief system?

Depends on the sect, probably. I know some Taoists say that you SHOULD have two person sex to balance the energy (men get some yin energy, women get some yang). Lots of old Taoist guys keep young women around to have sex with for just that reason (and also probably because having sex with young women is fun).

We have a nice habit in the west of taking something that was said to one person at one time for one situation and making a doctrine out of it-- probably people do it everywhere, not just in the west.

[kreese]

From the article: "The prostate, together with the seminal vesicles, secretes the bulk of the fluid in semen, which is rich in substances such as potassium, zinc, fructose and citric acid. Generating the fluid involves concentrating these components from the bloodstream up to 600-fold - and this could be where the trouble starts."

Keep in mind that a long time ago people probably did a lot more physical activity and weren't rich enough to stuff their faces like we can nowadays. Adding gong fu training on top of that - maybe some people didn't have enough rest and resources to keep their bodies well nourished. Staying up half the night bjorking the wife and then having to replenish said nutrients may have been a strain on the system.

[Interloper]

But the typical ejaculation is about a teaspoon of semen - hardly enough to deplete a man's reserves even if he "bjorks" several times a night. The rest of the fluids involved mostly are donated by the woman (natural lubrication, plus any contraceptive gel or foam). Do the Taoist texts speak of the jing that women lose? They must also be giving up some proteins, at least, in those viscous lube fluids.

[D_Glenn]

But the typical ejaculation is about a teaspoon of semen - hardly enough to deplete a man's reserves even if he "bjorks" several times a night. The rest of the fluids involved mostly are donated by the woman (natural lubrication, plus any contraceptive gel or foam). Do the Taoist texts speak of the jing that women lose? They must also be giving up some proteins, at least, in those viscous lube fluids.

In women the jing resides in the menstrual blood, so women only really lose jing once a month. And no offense but you being a woman it's hard to take anything you say about how male ejaculation effects men seriously, maybe you could tell us how a heavy month opposed to a light month affects your practice, that might be useful to the subject and give us some perspective as to the loss of jing in women.

***
Masturbation in taoist thought is bad because not only do you waste the jing, although actually it's less jing without a women present, but you also lose yang without gaining the yin from the women, which could lead to 'yin deficiency'.

***
The prostrate goes bad when there is a drop in testosterone and a rise in estrogen that converts to estradiol. Estradiol causes an increase in cAMP which causes the prostrate to grow. cAMP doesn't distinguish between healthy cells and mutated cancerous cells, so it causes both to grow. Free testosterone can also 'aromatize' into estrogen which can be blocked with herbs like nettle root. The usable form of testosterone that we attribute to all the muscle building and energy is actually when it converts to DHT, DHT cannot aromatize back into estrogen and actually causes the prostrate to shrink. The rise in BHP and prostrate cancer is really a problem of males being overwhelmed with estrogen in the diet- hormone fed animals, pesticides, plastic water bottles, PVC, the most widely prescribed pharmaceutical: Premarin (birth control pills of synthetic estradiol) which are excreted and make their way back into tap water and into the soil and plants. Add in the fact that testosterone and the steroidal hormones are produced from cholesterol, so put someone on a cholesterol controlling drug and their body can't produce the testosterone and DHT to counteract the estrogens. Prostrate growth - not from large amount of seminal fluid. -fwiw
.

[Interloper]

I don't have to be a man to understand how male physiology works. Just as nearly all gynocologists/obstetricians were male until the mid-20th century, and they had no problem understanding how female physiology works.

The teaspoon or so of sugars, etc. that a man loses in an ejaculation is not what makes him feel "spent"; it's the myriad other things his entire body, from his neuromuscular system to his circulatory and pulmonary systems, have been doing during the sex act. Then there's the refractory period, which can vary among individuals. It's more than just "losing spooge." That's the least amount of "jing" involved, I'd say.

[Ian]

Masturbation in taoist thought is bad because not only do you waste the jing, although actually it's less jing without a women present, but you also lose yang without gaining the yin from the women, which could lead to 'yin deficiency'.

Hi D_Glenn,

Would you mind explaining what 'jing' is?

[D_Glenn]

Interloper, well it would probably help if you at least learned what jing is. It's not the "splooge" at all. It's basically an energy that is involved in cell replication and is normally dispersed throughout the blood and entire body but during sex the Prenatal and Postnatal Jing are brought down into the male's genitals in order to help the sperm and egg begin replicating if conception occurs. Prenatal jing is related to stem cells and cell death. The taoists believe that there is a limited amount of times the Key can be duplicated before the organism begins to decay and die. Loss of prenatal jing is another time that replication must occur, and the loss of Postnatal jing throughout the body in order for the male to have sex means a lack of growth and healing in the rest of the body until it rebuilds.

Actually after masturbation us men don't feel "spent", actually invigorated as the Yang is raised up, it's after sex with a woman (especially at night) that we feel exhausted from gaining the woman's Yin, the woman taking our Yang (you feel awake and energized), and we get a huge melatonin (yin) dump and can't help but to pass out. - so you know.

.

[bailewen]

I think that's up there with the idea that it makes you lose your eyesight. Having said that this keyboard does look awfully fuzzy today....

A damp cloth and some windex should get rid of most of that. . .

[Andy_S]

Mix:

You mean a chap can explode if his parts don't go off on a regular basis? Damn.

Presumably, on this logic, chubby chaps are swelling up, not necessarily from eating all the pies, but from the excess of jing/splooge overlowing their spud sacks, filling the rest of their bodies and leading to critical mass....so the best thing they can do is have one off the wrist?

Mate...nip into the gents with some one-handed reading material and treat yourself!

[mixjourneyman]

Mix:

You mean a chap can explode if his parts don't go off on a regular basis? Damn.

Presumably, on this logic, chubby chaps are swelling up, not necessarily from eating all the pies, but from the excess of jing/splooge overlowing their spud sacks, filling the rest of their bodies and leading to critical mass....so the best thing they can do is have one off the wrist?

Mate...nip into the gents with some one-handed reading material and treat yourself!

Yes, that is obviously exactly what I meant.
You will literally explode if you don't blow your load.
I saw it happen to two guys the other day.

[SPJ]

Every thing in moderation.

Food, drinks, sleep and cough "sex" cough--

There are times to relax. There are times to practice.

There are times to tumble and roll. There are times to lay back and do nothing.

There are times--

[zenshiite]

To the OP, you don't have to remain using hearsay on this topic either. There's tons of good books out there about the topic, one that might be helpful in curbing the not so strong urges to jerk would be learning how to draw your jing upwards to the dan tien. Heck, certain yogic positions can be helpful in this regard... like handstands combined with breathing.

[GrahamB]

Mix:

You mean a chap can explode if his parts don't go off on a regular basis? Damn.

Presumably, on this logic, chubby chaps are swelling up, not necessarily from eating all the pies, but from the excess of jing/splooge overlowing their spud sacks, filling the rest of their bodies and leading to critical mass....so the best thing they can do is have one off the wrist?

Mate...nip into the gents with some one-handed reading material and treat yourself!

Yes, that is obviously exactly what I meant.
You will literally explode if you don't blow your load.
I saw it happen to two guys the other day.

There was jing everywhere. It wasn't pretty.