2 different Wing Chun approaches

[johnwang]

The general TCMA principle "body unification" that when your body

- move, all body parts move at the same time.
- stop, all body parts stop at the same time.

When you move your body, your body push/pull your arm. In the following 2 clips, there is a big difference in "principle". Which WC approach do you think is the correct one?

[Overlord]

Both are correct.
One cannot replace another.
Objectives are different.

Over

[NoSword]

Just because the body is not moving visibly, does not mean that the body (or the ground) is not driving the hand. Not saying that's what's going on in the second video, though -- absence of evidence does not mean evidence of absence.

I see no contradiction between the two approaches ("integration" vs. "isolation"), although I don't particularly care for the second video.

AK

[Aky]

Hello all,
This is my first post here
My opinion:
Both forms are correct… however as others have pointed out the goals of the “exercise” are different. Even though the two forms are named “Siu Lim Tau” the first one has all the movements (probably more) that currently exist in the forms: Siu Lim Tau, Chum Kiu and Biu Jee, taught in different schools or lineages.

Each one of the three forms represents an stage in learning/development of the practitioner. Starting in Siu Lim Tau with more isolated/rigid movements and ending in Biu Jee where the movements are to be executed fluidly and in an integrated way, like in the first form above… or in a Taichi Chen form…

This doesn’t means that the first form has to be executed always in a rigid way, when the student reaches the Biu Jee level, that fluidity may “permeate” to the two previous forms, depending on what you want to work on.

In Ving Tsun the forms are a means to reach attributes/qualities in the body and not just a collection of techniques.

Cheers!!

[chud]

I haven't done that form in years.
Having said that, I like both versions, but I am intrigued by the first one.

[TaiChiTJ]

Yes I agree with the folks who can find value in both.

If the guy emphasizing body unity with a little flow behind absolutely every single move understands the attack may come unannounced and surprise him and he may not have time to sink his weight, put a little bend in his knee, etc. that's good.

And if the guy in the second video realizes he is just training the arm moves mostly and that in a real fight his arms alone may not have the power and he needs to have a training method to incorporate body flow into his arms moves, then that's good.

If either practitioner is not exploring all degrees of participation of the whole body, that would be the problem, imho.

(I first heard the term body unity by Master Augustine Fong saying it, by the way. I think it is a "way cool" term, as the young people say these days).

[Pipefighter,PhD]

I have very little training in WC. done a little chi sau with my JKD Instructor back when. Generally speaking, is there a purpose for a form drill isolating certain movements from the body? What is that purpose? I get isolated groups weight training, though i don't lift weights (just people and construction materials). Don't get isolated form drills...

[SCMT]

The general TCMA principle "body unification" that when your body

- move, all body parts move at the same time.
- stop, all body parts stop at the same time.

When you move your body, your body push/pull your arm. In the following 2 clips, there is a big difference in "principle". Which WC approach do you think is the correct one?

You are showing two very different versions of Wing Chun there

James Sinclair is a student of Ip Chun and therefore he is doing the Hong Kong style of Ip Man

Cheng Kwong was a student of Pak Cheung and you are showing a Fatahan version of Sil lum Tao and there is no Ip Man in his lineage.

Heck I trained in two different lineages both from Yip Man and the Sil Lum Tao was not the same and I cannot make a judgment as to which is better, only which one fit me better. And the is because both teachers were damn good at what they did.

[dspyrido]

I have very little training in WC. done a little chi sau with my JKD Instructor back when. Generally speaking, is there a purpose for a form drill isolating certain movements from the body? What is that purpose? I get isolated groups weight training, though i don't lift weights (just people and construction materials). Don't get isolated form drills...

The second clip (HK/Yip man variant) was taught as an "internal" practice. In this isolated fashion it was practised very very slowly. So the routine you see would be built up to be completed over 30m or even an 1 hour and the movement was done so slowly you should not detect the motion. Why? For the same reason why people do standing posture which is to learn to sink and remove as much tension in the body as possible, concentrate on body alignment, stretch the ligaments in certain areas of the body, pack dantien, boost sensitivity, learn to control the mind and still it etc.

It's probably the closest thing to a wing chun neigung set.