New Translation - Sun Lutang's the Study of Xing Yi Quan

[Franklin]

Just want to let everyone know that we just finished and released a new translation of

Xing Yi Quan Xue - The Study of Xing Yi Quan by Sun Lutang



the book is 200 pages
6x9 paperback

we are offering a discount on our website to celebrate the finishing of this project
so if you want to get a copy directly from me you can get it here:
http://shenlongpub.com/the-study-of-xing-yi-quan-xing-yi-quan-xue-detail

the book will also be available on Amazon and on Kindle very soon
I will update with the links when I have them!


thanks to everyone who has supported me over the years
hope you enjoy this translation
and I am already working on some more..

Franklin

[Doc Stier]

Nice! Congratulations! I look forward to seeing it.

[Dale Dugas]

Woohoo!

Nice job!

[SCMT]

Looks interesting, might pick it up, how does it compare to the version by translated by Albert Liu and edited by Dan Miller.

[Franklin]

Looks interesting, might pick it up, how does it compare to the version by translated by Albert Liu and edited by Dan Miller.

when you get your copy let me know..

ok seriously...
I couldn't answer that really
I read Albert Liu's translation when it came out, and haven't looked at in probably 10 years...

but because we translated the same book- i am sure there will be lots of similarities and also some differences..

I did get some nice feedback on my translation of Sun's Bagua book- here is what one reader wrote to me:

I have to say that your book is an excellent book.... your book is far beyond others: 1. clear instructions 2. that make sense and 3. can be putted into practice. I'm using it making confrontations with other teachings I had from teachers and masters, and your translations fits the principles (to me). Thanks for such a nice tool and the quality of the work you made (repetition of key concepts, same vocabulary, simplifiying concepts, etc.).

so I can only hope that people will also find value in my translation of Sun's Xing Yi Book...


I did have someone on facebook ask me basically: if they were happy with someone else's translation- then why should they get mine
and I basically replied to them that its a personal thing- if they are happy - then no need to look at anything else...

personally- i like to read translations of the same work done by different people
i think it gives me a clearer picture of the material
because no translation is going to ever be perfect...
so i think there is room for different people to translate the same work- and that that has value...


just my thoughts..

but if you do pick up the book
I would love to hear what you thought...


Franklin

[Franklin]

Nice! Congratulations! I look forward to seeing it.

Thanks Doc

Hope you like it.

I had the chance to learn Sun Xingyi and Bagua from a lineage here in Taiwan
great stuff..

Franklin

[Franklin]

Woohoo!

Nice job!

Thanks brother

Hows the Iron Skills book coming...??
I am still working on mine.. it has taken a back burner-- but hope to start back on it soon!!


Franklin

[Josealb]

I did have someone on facebook ask me basically: if they were happy with someone else's translation- then why should they get mine
and I basically replied to them that its a personal thing- if they are happy - then no need to look at anything else...

personally- i like to read translations of the same work done by different people
i think it gives me a clearer picture of the material
because no translation is going to ever be perfect...
so i think there is room for different people to translate the same work- and that that has value.

Hi Franklin. Im the one that asked you on Facebook, but thats not exactly what i asked. What i asked you was "why anyone that has the Dan Miller book would buy this one, if the first one is known to be a high quality translation. I was hoping this one would have differences, or extra material, etc." Since you werent able to make a comparison between the two, its left for me, and anyone that has Dan's book, to think there arent any differences worth buying. Its not a question of being happy with one thing, its a question of objective value. Just wanted to be clear on that.

If someone does a remake of The Godfather, for example, you better believe they will focus on differences, sell those, and never ever tell you that the last time they saw the original was 10 years ago.

[Franklin]

I did have someone on facebook ask me basically: if they were happy with someone else's translation- then why should they get mine
and I basically replied to them that its a personal thing- if they are happy - then no need to look at anything else...

personally- i like to read translations of the same work done by different people
i think it gives me a clearer picture of the material
because no translation is going to ever be perfect...
so i think there is room for different people to translate the same work- and that that has value.

Hi Franklin. Im the one that asked you on Facebook, but thats not exactly what i asked. What i asked you was "why anyone that has the Dan Miller book would buy this one, if the first one is known to be a high quality translation. I was hoping this one would have differences, or extra material, etc." Since you werent able to make a comparison between the two, its left for me, and anyone that has Dan's book, to think there arent any differences worth buying. Its not a question of being happy with one thing, its a question of objective value. Just wanted to be clear on that.

If someone does a remake of The Godfather, for example, you better believe they will focus on differences, sell those, and never ever tell you that the last time they saw the original was 10 years ago.

i know it was you who asked me

this is exactly what you asked me

Hi Frank. Can you provide differences between this version and the seminal translation done by Dan Miller?

this is exactly what i replied to you

as I understand it Dan Miller was the editor and not the translator. I haven't looked at it in years, of course I read it when it first came out.

I can not really answer you what are the differences. I did not base my translation on someone else's translation, I only based it on the original work. And, not having taken a look at the translation by Albert Liu in about 10 years or more, I have no idea what exactly is the same or different. But because we both translated the same work, I can probably safely assume that there will be similarities and also differences.

Whether or not my translation has merit will have to be decided by the people who read it. This is not something for me to declare myself. I have received very encouraging feedback from people regarding my translation of Sun Lutang's Bagua book. I hope that my translation of his Xing Yi book is as well received.

If you are interested, I would suggest that you wait until my translation is available on Amazon. Then you can use the preview inside function that Amazon has to compare directly yourself.

Cheers

and this was exactly your response to my reply

Thanks for explaining, Franklin. I just wanted to see if there were any reasons why anyone that has the Dan Miller book would buy this one, if the first one is known to be a high quality translation. I was hoping this one would have differences, or extra material or whatever. Anyway, thanks again for taking the time.

to which I exactly replied

no problem, if you are happy with one translation- there is no need for you to buy a new translation...

[SCMT]

Looks interesting, might pick it up, how does it compare to the version by translated by Albert Liu and edited by Dan Miller.

when you get your copy let me know..

ok seriously...
I couldn't answer that really
I read Albert Liu's translation when it came out, and haven't looked at in probably 10 years...

but because we translated the same book- i am sure there will be lots of similarities and also some differences..

I did get some nice feedback on my translation of Sun's Bagua book- here is what one reader wrote to me:

I have to say that your book is an excellent book.... your book is far beyond others: 1. clear instructions 2. that make sense and 3. can be putted into practice. I'm using it making confrontations with other teachings I had from teachers and masters, and your translations fits the principles (to me). Thanks for such a nice tool and the quality of the work you made (repetition of key concepts, same vocabulary, simplifiying concepts, etc.).

so I can only hope that people will also find value in my translation of Sun's Xing Yi Book...


I did have someone on facebook ask me basically: if they were happy with someone else's translation- then why should they get mine
and I basically replied to them that its a personal thing- if they are happy - then no need to look at anything else...

personally- i like to read translations of the same work done by different people
i think it gives me a clearer picture of the material
because no translation is going to ever be perfect...
so i think there is room for different people to translate the same work- and that that has value...


just my thoughts..

but if you do pick up the book
I would love to hear what you thought...


Franklin

Thanks for the response, and with that I shall have to buy a copy... and I let you know

[Franklin]

Jose to answer your new question

why anyone that has the Dan Miller book would buy this one, if the first one is known to be a high quality translation.

my answer would be

because that is what people do when they are interested in a subject..
they explore it the best of their ability..
one way to do this if they can not read the original language is to read translations

I own multiple translations of many works
and if a new translation comes out I would be interested in getting that one too

i assume I am not a freak of nature and that other people exist in the world with similar thought patterns


in your question you make several things clear
you refer to the translation by albert liu as "seminal" and now you use "known to be a high quality translation"
from this we can deduce that you are happy with the translation that you own

hence i offered the advice for you to wait until my translation is available on amazon and you could review and decide for your self if this new translation was something you are interested in purchasing for yourself..
and suggested that if you are not interested then this is not something for you...

[Franklin]

Thanks for the response, and with that I shall have to buy a copy... and I let you know

I hope you like it- a lot of work went into it..


Cheers

Franklin

[Josealb]

You are being very selective and picky with your words, Frank. Not sure why. You said:

I did have someone on facebook ask me basically: if they were happy with someone else's translation- then why should they get mine

And i corrected this. You also said:

you refer to the translation by albert liu as "seminal" and now you use "known to be a high quality translation". from this we can deduce that you are happy with the translation that you own.

That is correct, i am happy with it, but its not what i said. If you quote someone, quote someone. But that is NOT why i started asking about your book, or because i choose to not buy it or imply that other people shouldnt on the basis of being happy with it. Your attempt to automatically attach subjective value to my questions was misguided, and you simply imply that i just happen to like one thing, and not the other. Thats not the case. I love everything xingyiquan, and my case is simply this:

You chose to replicate something thats already there, and that is of high quality. When asked about your insight into this, and motivations (which is an excellent opportunity for you to stand out and make your translation truly original and worthwhile for anyone), you shrugged the original (the first translation) as something not important and not relevant enough to glance at in the last 10 years. Really? You are making something that has been made before, that you know is popular and well known, and you are, by choice, not even prepared to make a comparison for the potential buyers (who most likely own that Dan Miller book as well)? Talk about trying to stand on the shoulders of giants, man. Be honest with yourself.

On the heels of that are other questions, but those are a little off tangent.

[Franklin]

That is correct, i am happy with it, but its not what i said. If you quote someone, quote someone. But that is NOT why i started asking about your book, or because i choose to not buy it or imply that other people shouldnt on the basis of being happy with it. Your attempt to automatically attach subjective value to my questions was misguided, and you simply imply that i just happen to like one thing, and not the other. Thats not the case. I love everything xingyiquan, and my case is simply this:

You chose to replicate something thats already there, and that is of high quality. When asked about your insight into this, and motivations (which is an excellent opportunity for you to stand out and make your translation truly original and worthwhile for anyone), you shrugged the original (the first translation) as something not important and not relevant enough to glance at in the last 10 years. Really? You are making something that has been made before, that you know is popular and well known, and you are, by choice, not even prepared to make a comparison for the potential buyers (who most likely own that Dan Miller book as well)? Talk about trying to stand on the shoulders of giants, man. Be honest with yourself.

On the heels of that are other questions, but those are a little off tangent.

1- I never said you liked one and did not like the other
I simply said that if you were happy with what was in front of you and did not wish to read anything else = then you have your answer already right?



2- I did not replicate a translation of Sun's work
what I did was produce a translation of Sun's work
there is a big difference

I don't take anything away form anyone's work
and my work doesn't need to compare itself to others to have merit or value
merit or value is created by the reader ...
if people found it useful and valuable - then it will have merit and value...

if some other translations of Sun's work came out in the future - i think that would be a great thing
and if someone asked me if they should get another translation of the same work (besides mine)
then I would tell them definitely yes---
get as many translations as you can
each one will give you a look at what the original work is about
(the same as I have said multiple times previously)

and people that are not interested in another translation then of course should not buy it
if people are interested to see what is the difference- when the book is available on amazon they can use the search inside function and see for themselves
and make a decision

you shrugged the original (the first translation) as something not important and not relevant enough to glance at in the last 10 years. Really? You are making something that has been made before, that you know is popular and well known, and you are, by choice, not even prepared to make a comparison for the potential buyers (who most likely own that Dan Miller book as well)? Talk about trying to stand on the shoulders of giants, man. Be honest with yourself.

lol ok

i never said that the translation by Albert Liu did not have value nor did I "shrug" it

you never asked me what I thought of the translation by Alber Liu
the question you asked was what is different about mine

which I answered honestly--
I read Albert Liu's translation when it first came out, and haven't looked at it for maybe 10 years or so..

I never placed any value judgement on it AT ALL...

as for riding people's coat tails, "standing on the shoulders of giants"
I am not sure that you understand the amount of work that goes into producing a translation
and this shows that you definitely don't understand the reward of doing all that work
(its not much)

if I was interested in elevating myself socially and financially
by dishonest means or tricks and not based on my own a merit (as you seem to imply)
i am sure there are a ton of ways to do this that would be a whole lot easier and also a whole lot rewarding

When asked about your insight into this, and motivations

actually you never asked my motivations


here is something that i wrote to my students and customers regarding the translation

Here is some back story about these translations that you might not know.

Years ago I practiced some Sun style Taiji with some friends of mine in LA, where I was going to Chinese Medical School. I enjoyed the form and it had a different feel from the Yang style, Chen style, and Wu style that I had learned before. (Yeah- I am kind of a kung fu nerd... and I have had the good fortune to have had some great teachers and friends that have shared their styles with me...)

I have always wanted to learn Sun style Bagua... so fast forward to when I moved back to Taiwan a couple years ago.. whenever I am living some place I always look around and see if I can find a teacher or teachers to advance my skill and knowledge..

It turns out that the park that was right outside my front door in Tainan Taiwan was actually the place to go to learn Sun style Xing Yi and Bagua. As luck or fortune would have it, Master Lin Miaohua taught out of the park that was right at my doorstep.

Now just to let you know, if you have read accounts of people that went to learn kung fu in taiwan in years past- the martial arts landscape is not the same as it was decades ago. Right now in Taiwan there are still good people practicing and teaching, but you really need to search for them. So it was really crazy to find such a high level master at my doorstep!!

Master Lin Miaohua is retired now - he was an art teacher, and is actually very famous for his artwork in Taiwan. And, he teaches in the park almost every morning. Master Lin is really a nice guy in every sense of the word, and he really loves Kung Fu. In his youth he had studied under many of the famous masters in Taiwan. His main teacher was Zhang Shirong who taught Yang style Taiji and Sun style Xingyi and Bagua in Tainan (master Zhang was also featured briefly in Robert Smith's book Masters and Methods). Master Lin was one of Master Zhang's top students.

I developed a very good relationship with Master Lin and my kung fu brothers. I trained with Master Lin for about 2-3 hours 6 days a week. And because I was not a beginner and we got along very well, he shared many things with me and taught me closed door practices that are not meant for the public. So I was very fortunate, because his skill is very very good and the material is top notch.

Training with Master Lin was really a privilege. And although Master Lin did not learn or teach Sun style taiji, the footwork training in the Sun style Bagua and Xingyi and the way the power is released really opened my eyes to better understanding the Sun style Taiji I had learned before.

Earlier this year I moved my family up to the north of the island to Taipei, and Master Lin gave me permission to teach his arts (he also gave me some of his artwork and calligraphy for which I am very honored). Fortunately for me, Taiwan now has a high speed train which makes it easy for me to travel back south and visit with my teacher Master Lin and my friends and kung fu brothers.

The reason I started translating Sun Lutang's Bagua and Xing Yi books was because, while I was learning these styles, I wanted to know what the master had to say about them himself. Now I am happy that these works can be of value to practitioners from around the world and also to my students.

so let me summarize that for you

• I had the good fortune to meet a highly skilled teacher from the Sun style tradition
• I had the good fortune to be accepted as a indoor student
• I was asked to teach this tradition
• While studying Sun style I wanted to see what Master Sun had to say about his arts himself

if you notice - none of that was in any way part of my public marketing strategy of the book
this was written to my students and to people who have been my customers
people I already have a relationship with
just to let them know what has been going on
and to share with them on a personal level

If i wanted to market- then this would have been one of my selling points
but it wasn't
because I feel the translation should stand or fall based on the translation
not the story surrounding the translation


if i was going to stand on the shoulders of giants
those giants would be my teacher, my grand teacher, his teacher, and Sun Lutang
no one else
period
and I am honored to be part of this tradition and to help carry it forward for the future...
translations of Sun's works are one of my small ways to do this


please note that although I represent this tradition
the translation falls squarely on my shoulders
if there is any shortcomings in the translation- the fault rests with me directly...

On the heels of that are other questions, but those are a little off tangent.

i am not even sure what this is all about

but

its a free world man
we can all choose how to conduct ourselves

say what you want to say
or don't say it and allude to your internal thought process



Cheers
Franklin

[Josealb]

Thanks for that little story about your bagua teacher. Thats cool, and totally understandable, and absolutely relevant to how good or not good your translation might be, because it gives you a background to understand Suns stuff better.

As far as everything else, seeing that what i write, here, on the same page just above your responses, in english, is actually clearly being misread by you, ill pass on your interpretation of something in chinese. Good luck with the book, hope it does great.