Anatomical structure of dantien & ....

[Miro]

Jarek,

I do not say you are wrong, all the texts and good teachers say the same so it is perhaps better if we stick with with strict and precise location. But I am not so sure all those small deviations from strict description are necessarily wrong. (I do not know if you teach but many of my students have peculiar characteristics so I learned not to be overly strict, I do not think to say "this is the only way and all other is wrong" is useful. On the contrary, I often say "everything is correct, if you know what you are doing and why.). I do not know what is better - whether to be strict and tell the student "only this is correct, so wait until you get it" and they maybe will never get it, or to tell them "ok, try various possibilities and eventually you will find by yourself what is suitable to you". For now, I find second attitude to be more useful.
And also, when you do transformation Qi to Shen, cauldron moves up (stove stays there). That process of moving cauldron is not discountinuous so the feeling is that dantian loses its "fixed" (or strict) borderline, no? I do not know, it is hard to talk about this, it is much better to see it. Pity you are so far, next time you will go home, let me know, I would like to see you. And thanks for good discussion. Btw, could you write characters for Cao Xinyi or tell me something about him? I did searching his name in pinyin and did not find anything. Or even tell me about your conversation with 胡海牙, please. Thanks.

[Jarek]

Miro,

My teacher's name is 曹信义, styled 震阳子. He left in 2002, same year my Bagua teacher passed away.
Mr Hu was speaking in a very low voice, so nobody else present in the room would hear. Or maybe it was his normal way of speaking, I do not know.
I have never taught since arriving in China. I feel more comfortable being a student.
I think further discussion is possible only when we meet, face to face, besides continuing it here would derail the MA oriented discussion. FYI I should be back in Poland for vacation earliest next summer, but maybe you will make it to PRC earlier. Looking forward to meeting you.

Jarek

[yfaway]

Sorry to revive this old topic. I stumble on this a bit late, but it is an area of great interest to me. I hope someone can comment on the followings:

1. If dantien doesn't exist in Western medicine and if they are purely a region where various tendon/ligament/fascia connect, how can one explain the rolling feeling as well as the squeezing noise that can be very loud. Those manifestations seem to imply some sort of cave/wall.

2. It seems like besides relaxation, there is a direct relationship between the above observations and the fullness of your stomach. Much harder when the stomach is full; you seem to have to do quite a bit of work to kill the food before those manifest.

3. Assuming that most of the poster here feel the dantien, I am just curious with your school of practice, how long before you start feeling sensation in the dantien, and how long till the rolling and squeezing noise show up, and do they eventually go away?

Thanks,

[dspyrido]

Sorry to revive this old topic. I stumble on this a bit late, but it is an area of great interest to me. I hope someone can comment on the followings:

1. If dantien doesn't exist in Western medicine and if they are purely a region where various tendon/ligament/fascia connect, how can one explain the rolling feeling as well as the squeezing noise that can be very loud. Those manifestations seem to imply some sort of cave/wall.

2. It seems like besides relaxation, there is a direct relationship between the above observations and the fullness of your stomach. Much harder when the stomach is full; you seem to have to do quite a bit of work to kill the food before those manifest.

3. Assuming that most of the poster here feel the dantien, I am just curious with your school of practice, how long before you start feeling sensation in the dantien, and how long till the rolling and squeezing noise show up, and do they eventually go away?

Thanks,

I dont know what exactly you're asking but I will say this - sensations in the body are byproducts that occur when training. They are not the goal and in some ways are useful but in other ways distract a person from the training objective of ... just keep going and getting better at applying.

So if someone says to me "I can fell my chi spinning in my dantien" my response is "show it to me".

But instead of psychosomatic emotions which cannot be verified and likely candidates for self deception - an engaged core is a very real concept that can do so many useful things like bounce off attacks in sung structure, increase attack power, allow you to deflect incoming force with barely a movement at the limb level and then the many health benefits. Shouldn't this be the focus if you are doing a martial art?

[yfaway]

That's what all my instructors say as well, side effect of the practice. Of course I continue pushing forward with the practice, but there is always an urge to really understand what is going on inside that area. I do taichi for health, so much of what you mentioned do not apply; the closest thing we do is cooperative push hand. However, the feeling is real; the noise is real. Nothing abstract as chi.

Lately I have been wondering whether the loud noise is because things are not smoothened out yet. Pressure points getting squeezed causing a burst. Perhaps as coordinations of the body improve, the noise will fade out.

[Michael]

I think it's been experienced by those in the thread with more knowledge and training than myself, but the default positions for energy reception and transmission can be controlled by the mind. The significance of this is that a skilled teacher might instruct according to something developed differently than the default entry/exit/collection point. Why could be reasons I can only guess at, but I think there are geniuses, IMO, who make these curricula. Just a small footnote here. The default points are pretty well-established, yes?

[yeniseri]

2. It seems like besides relaxation, there is a direct relationship between the above observations and the fullness of your stomach. Much harder when the stomach is full; you seem to have to do quite a bit of work to kill the food before those manifest.
3. Assuming that most of the poster here feel the dantien, I am just curious with your school of practice, how long before you start feeling sensation in the dantien, and how long till the rolling and squeezing noise show up, and do they eventually go away?

If dantien doesn't exist in Western medicine and if they are purely a region where various tendon/ligament/fascia connect, how can one explain the rolling feeling as well as the squeezing noise that...............

If is 'conditional' so dantian is a foreign concept to Western medicine having nothing to do with fascia/tendon, etc. It just isn't recognized. You appear to be saying that it should exist despite evidence to the contrary!
Stomach fullness is overweigh, high BMI and not part of any neigong training though it is obvious there are those with high abdominal adiposity who do train neigong. No relationship here.

When you do enough neigong training, your stomach will changes since you actually burn the 'excess fat" so any sensation is within normal range when the squeezing, etc takes place so a natural event, no less. It is only when you 'cut through" the mental and physical obstruction that some surpanormal event(s) take place but again the first step is awareness and a good teacher of some kind and sort.