Anatomical structure of dantien & ....

[edededed]

So - Newton was sort of a dickhead then?

Interesting article about it:

http://io9.com/5877660/was-robert-hooke ... st-asshole

Cool, thanks
So, even scientists can be assholes it seems!

[edededed]

Anyway - back to topic...

Are the other "moving balls" related to the dantian then? Can one just train the "zouchangzi" or "zourouqiu" before learning to move the dantian around first?

My bagua teacher can make his fingertips flush red (while the palms turn white) at will - is this kind of control of autonomous functions related to dantian, or just something different?

[kenneth fish]

One should be able to make any area flush by use of intent - its beginners material in Buddha Hand Wing Chun and most Shaolin arts. One cannot do zouchangzi until one has developed the dantian muscle control.

[edededed]

Interesting stuff, thanks for the reply. I think I want some of that Buddha Hand kool-aid, please... As it is, I only have very vague notions of how to eventually be able to flush body parts or develop dantian control... but it sounds like the Shaolin stuff may be quite clear about training methods...

[mixjourneyman]

in reply to body work
玄牝之门是谓天地根、

the female mystery gate is the root of the world.

in the Taiji concept we may say that the root of creation (in movement) is the dantian- the dantian is a large and unclear (having no sensation unless cultivated in some way)- the root of the movement comes from cultivating an empty thing which later turns into a manifestation. the use of emptiness is that it can create something.
If we talk about dantian as a mechanism which is combined with breath, control of the musculature of the body, and intention all based around a place which basically doesn't independently exist (at least according to Daoist practice, it doesn't exist in a physically palpable way), then the creation of any manifestation of the dantian is akin to alchemy practice- which is: 含阴吐阳 to store yin and release yang.
or more exactly, to use the mind to create something from emptiness.
the practice of emptying something is a cycle in the natural development of yin and yang- it tends to happen before regeneration. Thus, a very high level of taijiquan technique is to be able to manifest the empty quality of yin to produce the effect of yang.
For instance, using emptiness to defeat a much larger opponent,

[Kettlebells4U]

One cannot do zouchangzi until one has developed the dantian muscle control.

What is the directest/ fastest way to develop dantian muscle control? And how do I know I have it???

[kenneth fish]

Under the guidance of a teacher who can demonstrate these things. When you make progress, it will be palpable.

[XiaoXiong]

I can say that when you have it you can hit with your intent directed to points on the body remote from the contact point, so that the contact point can be empty, and stay relaxed and mutable. So if my arm is the contact I can hit from the foot or the leg or the breath or the neck and it is expressed through the relaxed connected frame. It feels like you didn't do anything to you, but you moved your energy from yin to yang or vice versa and hit the center. The key is to be able to take or give force that is constantly transforming internally yet is coordinated properly externally also. Thus three internal and external harmonies.
Jess

[dspyrido]

Just on this...

My bagua teacher can make his fingertips flush red (while the palms turn white) at will - is this kind of control of autonomous functions related to dantian, or just something different?

And...

One should be able to make any area flush by use of intent - its beginners material in Buddha Hand Wing Chun and most Shaolin arts. One cannot do zouchangzi until one has developed the dantian muscle control.

Making an area flush is also similar to bringing heat to an area, also relates to pain control and also seems to be related to but is a different excercise of "hair stands on edge". These can all be learnt via ZZ which you mentioned is also under slow sil lum tao and most meditative practices. I think the precedent for this is a healthy body and a slightly patient mind to eventually "attune" to these areas to gain the subtle control. But I don't think a developed physical dantien is a prerequisite. I think you say as much but want to clarify. Is this correct?

Also on the term "zouchangzi" or "zourouqiu" - never heard of it & google keeps referring me to this link so how does it relate to expressing through a developed dantien?

[wiesiek]

qi>blood >mind>qi>blood>mind>qi>blood>mind>qi>blood>mind>qi>blood >mind>qi>blood>mind>qi>blood>mind>qi>blood>mind

[GrahamB]

Is there a video of anybody creating a 'lump' on their body that moves about? Presumably it's a visible phenomena that would show up on video?

[RobP2]

Is there a video of anybody creating a 'lump' on their body that moves about? Presumably it's a visible phenomena that would show up on video?

You'd think, eh?

[Bodywork]

Is there a video of anybody creating a 'lump' on their body that moves about? Presumably it's a visible phenomena that would show up on video?

You'd think, eh?

There were you tube videos somewhere, although it is on the front. Not that videos really matter.

The trained dantian or hara is first and foremost for connecting the tendon meridians in the body to work as a connected whole. We now know that the Chinese tendon meridians are real and have been surgically traced and removed in the human body and laid out on a table by Americans doctors to prove out the tendon facial chaining theory of anatomy trains. Using them as a unit has explained how the body truly is best used as tensegrity model.

That said, none of that, as well the dantian as the driver for all of it, was believed even though it has been practiced for eons. Men of many cultures and generations trained got to sit by and enjoy as it was made fun of for years by more muscle headed do do martial artists who wanted to be seen as the ultimate in physical education, these days with their sport medicine and cross fit ideas that continue to change. Seeing the tissue laid out on a table and feeling the dantian in use as the driver for all of it is an age old concept that proves out the tensegrity idea and how the immovable (or stated more accurately the dynamically stable) attributes were so obvious and sought after by the brighter and more educated martial artists in their day.
A wonderful poem version of this is by Shirata Rinjiro
Place the immovable body in an invincible position
Release metsubushi
until the opponent becomes non resitent
Stated more clearly;
It is the qualities inherent in the immovable body....
That allow it to move and create continually advantageous (invincible) positioning.
From which it can generate repeated non-telegraphed strikes, kicks and throws.
Until the guy quits or fails.
Takuan the monk, the teacher of Munenori Yagyu and Musashi Miyamoto stated it well when he was discussing the model of immovability brought from Tibet to Japan via China. Japan's Fudo Myo-o (Patron saint of Budo) is the direct translation and source coming from Tibet's Acala vidya (esoteric practice to achieve immovability) Takuan stated that the stupid, and poorly educated warriors didn't understand immovability, not realizing that it also meant rapid and stable speed and an awareness. Stated even better than this through other esoteric practices it also meant supported (or aware or having a thousand eyes) on all sides.
All Takuan did was address the lack of education and awareness in all cultures and eras by the ever present muscle-heads of budo in any time or place.
Dan

[GrahamB]

Well, I hope you're not calling me a muscle-head, as I distinctly lack muscle, so not only would it be insulting, but also inaccurate. I dream of being a muscle-head

But are "Chinese tendon meridians" the same as normal Chinese meridians? Why are they called "tendon meridians"?

[cdobe]

in reply to body work
玄牝之门是谓天地根、

the female mystery gate is the root of the world.

This translation has always been dubious to me, despite its frequent usage. The text talks about a deep gorge.
The line before reads: 谷神不死，是谓玄牝
The valley/gorge (谷) spirit doesn't die, it is called the deep gorge (牝)
Chinese like to use synonyms or quasi-synonyms, so they don't use the same word again and again in short succession. In the first part of the sentence they use 谷 in the second part they use 牝. It is true that 牝 also means female and it is likely that the author plays with this double meaning (females give birth to new life), but to translate the word as female is over the top. It should be a footnote or commentary.
So I would rather translate the sentence
玄牝之门是谓天地根
as
The gate(way)* of the deep gorge (牝) is called the root of heaven and earth.

*One could even read the 'gate' as 'way' in Chinese, as in 'the way something works', so then it would be: The way of the deep gorge is called the root of heaven and earth.