if his students aren't exhibiting some internal power after several months of training that he is failing as a teacher
MaartenSFS wrote:And so it is that I'm back onboard with Taijiquan, but also improving my Sanda (or some semblance of it) and slowly learning some other stuff to complement it. For any of you on the fence, think carefully about the way you are being taught and whether you have actually attained any Gongfu or not. If it has been years and you are still as weak and useless at fighting as you always were, it may be time for a change (whether it's still Taiji or not will depend on the quality of teacher you find). For me it is exactly as Shifu said it would be before I started studying from him; "I will help you to build an engine. If you want to put it back into your Taiji or any other art, that is up to you." Good luck everyone and keep training hard (or start, you lazy fucking bastard!).
In conclusion, the "feeling" is not found by searching for it, but developed over time through hard, sometimes painful work, then brought back into the form. It is NOT found by doing an empty form ad infinitum. Imagining that you are doing hard work and fighting is not enough!
MaartenSFS wrote:For me it is exactly as Shifu said it would be before I started studying from him; "I will help you to build an engine. If you want to put it back into your Taiji or any other art, that is up to you
I'll do whatever this man says! Please ignore everything I said before meeting this teacher. It wasn't Taiji.
MaartenSFS wrote:Shifu said; "Song? What is Song? Do the form with a brick in each hand every day. Then do it without. That's Song."
WVMark wrote:LOL. You can add aikido to that list in your first sentence. I like all the quoted stuff from your teacher. Especially, internal builds the engine. What you do with it, is up to you. You fix the body's structure so that you can remove slack and knit it together in "whole body". Of course, you have to build those cross body connections, too. It's how the body is naturally built, but not a natural process to utilize. You build dantien so that it is in every part of your body. It takes a lot of solo training to accomplish. Glad you're finding your way.
Great post!
Andy_S wrote:Maartens:
I get your frustration.
From 1984, when I seriously took up MA practice, I did TKD, then Hapkido, then Mantis and Silat. I was exposed to Chen Taiji around 1994 and have played with it since then. I added some Bagua to my repertoire around 1996, and have stayed with IMA, with a bit of BJJ added, since then.
As regards Chen Taiji: For years, I enjoyed the practice but my understanding of usage was back-referenced from my previous, more combative, MA training.
Then I went to Chenjiagou and saw the way they trained it there. Much more physical - or, if you prefer, "Gee! It's just rassling!"
OK, it was not "the ultimate MA" but it certainly taught me a lot and made sense of many of the Taiji techniques and training regimens.
Since then, I have continued with Taiji, but maintain an open mind toward other MA. One can, indeed, learn from many sources.
That having been said: My Taiji journey has been spread over decades. While I agree that one SHOULD focus on results, my belief is that IMA re-program your biomechanics and fighting style, offering much greater potential than - well, other MA. And if you look at the art as it was taught in Chenjiagou: Firstly the kids spent a decade on the basics before really being taught anything combative. Thus, they had a really, really strong foundation before they even started to fight. Look at the stories of Yang Luchang in Chenjiagou and you start to get a sense that he trained "gongfu" - ie TIME and effort.
In this sense, one has to suck it up and just put in a bit of time grinding out the basic shit. To me this was not a huge problem: I had plenty of combative experience in my first decade in MA (and I stil have broken fingers, nose and knuckles to prove it) so I was ready for some more detailed work after than, and also for some more solo, self-development work rather than purely spank-spank-spank.
(The above is simply one man's experience. Take from it what thou wilt. And if that is nothing - fine!)
RE: This
SNIIP
And so it is that I'm back onboard with Taijiquan, but also improving my Sanda (or some semblance of it) and slowly learning some other stuff to complement it.
SNIP
FYI and to remind you:
You said pretty much the same thing after you had met your first Chen Taiji teacher.
I understand that you have since fallen out, but do you not think it might be worthwhile reconsidering some of your opinions, which seem to have come full circle in a pretty short (six months-one year) period?
Time is a great healer, and also a pretty fair teacher.
Anyway...
Good luck with your training, it seems like you have found a great sifu, but IME, the CIMA are much deeper than they look, and I would respectfully advise you not to get hung up on any kind of "quick fix."
IME, FWIW and YMMV.
Dmitri wrote:if his students aren't exhibiting some internal power after several months of training that he is failing as a teacher
There are some exceptions, that time frame and what is meant by the word "some" here would differ from person to person, sometimes quite a bit. But generally speaking -- absolutely! Amen.
Good post indeed. Good luck Maarten.
SCMT wrote:MaartenSFS wrote:And so it is that I'm back onboard with Taijiquan, but also improving my Sanda (or some semblance of it) and slowly learning some other stuff to complement it. For any of you on the fence, think carefully about the way you are being taught and whether you have actually attained any Gongfu or not. If it has been years and you are still as weak and useless at fighting as you always were, it may be time for a change (whether it's still Taiji or not will depend on the quality of teacher you find). For me it is exactly as Shifu said it would be before I started studying from him; "I will help you to build an engine. If you want to put it back into your Taiji or any other art, that is up to you." Good luck everyone and keep training hard (or start, you lazy fucking bastard!).
In conclusion, the "feeling" is not found by searching for it, but developed over time through hard, sometimes painful work, then brought back into the form. It is NOT found by doing an empty form ad infinitum. Imagining that you are doing hard work and fighting is not enough!
Nice post MaartenSFS, and I agree... but I'm not back on board with Taijiquan just yet.
But I am very much on board with this bit about taijiquanMaartenSFS wrote:For me it is exactly as Shifu said it would be before I started studying from him; "I will help you to build an engine. If you want to put it back into your Taiji or any other art, that is up to you
kenneth fish wrote:What you are describing is exactly what I posted some time back regarding the training I had seen as a child in Chinatown New York - strenuous reps of basic movements.
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